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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 November 2025
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Displaying 2368 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

Mr Ruskell is making a very interesting point, and he is probably talking about a whole new process, which we do not have at the moment. I am looking at Mr Doris’s screen: he is looking up what super-affirmative SSIs are.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

Sorry. I was not being—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

I will be really quick. The affirmative and super-affirmative procedures have limitations. I would probably go back to what Mr Ruskell was suggesting and what others have suggested in the past, which is that, after 25 years of this Parliament, we might need some new process.

However, as you rightly say, convener, we are not here to deal with that. We are here to deal with the amendments in this group, so I will wind up here.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

I will not move amendment 24, on the basis of—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

Thanks, convener. I have enormous sympathy with what you are trying to achieve in amendment 121, because there needs to be a stiffer deterrent than exists at the moment. We have probably all had cases of industrial-scale dumping in our patches. I had a really disgusting case of a load of chicken carcases being dumped next to a stream. We have all seen cases of tyres being dumped.

However, I have a question on amendment 202 that I would like Mr Lumsden to clear up—maybe he cannot, as it is Murdo Fraser’s amendment and not Mr Lumsden’s, although he has spoken to it. It is a very useful amendment. It would make SEPA responsible for clearing things up, but it does not say—or I cannot see that it says—within what time frame. We all know that, when things have been dumped, sometimes they are left for years and nobody does anything about it. I think that, at some point, Mr Fraser, either on his own or working with the minister, should clear that up, because we do not want to be in a position where SEPA is responsible but could say, “We will get round to it at some point.” I am sure that that is not what Mr Fraser is trying to achieve.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

I thank Monica Lennon for taking an intervention. She mentions the word “choice”. I am reflecting on amendments 170 and 157. Does she not think that it should be a matter of choice for health boards and councils whether they introduce the schemes that she is suggesting?

Clearly, North Ayrshire has made that choice and it says that the scheme is cost neutral, but I do not think that the committee has had the evidence of that. I think that we would need to see that evidence before deciding that the scheme was cost neutral. I imagine that several councils will conclude that such a scheme would not be cost neutral, and that health boards might similarly conclude that. Therefore, does Monica accept the general point that that should be a local decision, rather than something that is set down in law?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

I do not want to create a legal loophole either. It sounds as though the minister might accept what I am trying to achieve, but she is not happy with the wording.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

May I intervene again, minister?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

Does the minister not think it really important that we know who will pay the charge? I set out a number of scenarios in my opening comments. Will it be the supplier? In the case of, say, coffee cups, will it be the coffee shop? Will it be the consumer? Do you not think that we need that clarity?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Circular Economy (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 May 2024

Graham Simpson

I am not any clearer than Maurice Golden. The level of detail that he asks for is essential, and we do not have it. I listed a number of products that I might encounter in my day-to-day life, but there will be a whole load of others that I have not thought of that could be caught.