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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 June 2025
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Displaying 2315 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Damp and Mould in Social and Private Rented Housing

Meeting date: 2 May 2023

Willie Coffey

I will lead on the same issues as those that I asked the previous panel about, and I will start with John Kerr.

One issue is the extent to which tenants are responsible for the conditions that they live in because of their lifestyle. We are talking specifically about condensation, dampness and mould. You will be aware that the ombudsman in England issued a warning to social landlords to avoid blaming tenants for those conditions. Do you recognise that it is still an issue in Scotland that, in many cases, we say to our tenants that it is their lifestyle that causes condensation, dampness and mould in their homes?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Willie Coffey

Was there a sense that any of the workforce received a bonus payment? Was it just the six senior managers whom you referred to in the report who received them?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Willie Coffey

Auditor General, you mentioned the word “completion”. That was part of whatever shape the KPI framework took. People decided to award themselves a bonus on completion of the hull, which was years late. How on earth can that have been? Why was that not for “successful completion” or “timescaled completion”? Why was that kind of language not part of a bonus award scheme? How could that still be validly paid, even if the completion was years late?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Willie Coffey

Do you think that that money is ultimately recoverable? I need to ask that question, and I am sure that the public are asking it. It beggars belief that a bonus could be applied, given that the boats are five years late. What constitutes bonus criteria in any of that to justify the senior managers taking that award?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Willie Coffey

Can you pinpoint any timing issue? When exactly were the bonuses taken compared with when more public funds were being given to the yard? Can you draw any comparison there? Were they closely associated in time? I am trying to get at whether the bonuses were paid while the public purse was paying the yard more money to complete the ships.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Willie Coffey

You have answered the question about whether FMPG sought approval, and you have made it clear that it did not.

Finally, Auditor General, do you think that the decision to award the bonus payments shows a complete lack of awareness of the seriousness of the situation in the yard? Do you think that the management team awarding itself those bonuses was completely and utterly inappropriate?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Willie Coffey

I think that we needed that assurance. Clearly, the secondments provide an income stream. We are waiting for the value and the figures that are associated with that. That income will go to the yard, but it is the Scottish Government that is ultimately paying for the contractors who come in. Provided that those are different skills, however, that is the assurance that we are looking for.

I have a few questions on the bonus payment issue. Auditor General, you said in your opening remarks that FMPG is required to comply with the Scottish public finance manual requirements. Do you think that the process of awarding those bonuses to the senior management team without any reference to performance indicators complies with the requirements in the manual?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Willie Coffey

Who would have ultimately approved that? Was that a senior management or a board decision? Surely the six people who got the bonus were not part of that decision-making process.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2021/22 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 27 April 2023

Willie Coffey

Auditor General, the yard is able to offer 18 secondments to BAE Systems, and yet it is bringing in contractors to complete the work that we are discussing. How do we square that? Are the skills that are going out different from the ones that are needed to come in? Can you explain that? It does not make sense to me that the yard would let 18 staff be seconded when it needs to bring in contractors to complete the work.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Community Planning Inquiry (Post-legislative Scrutiny of the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015)

Meeting date: 25 April 2023

Willie Coffey

I want to touch on leadership, accountability and whether there is a role for audit in the CPP process. The committee has heard some great examples of CPPs that are working particularly well in a number of areas of Scotland, but that is not uniform; some CPPs might need some assistance and help to improve, and one of the ingredients that we think might contribute to that is effective local leadership. I want to find out whether you agree with that.

Someone who gave evidence to the committee made the really useful comment that effective leaders

“should leave silos, logos and egos at the door”,—[Official Report, Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee, 7 March 2023; c 69.]

which struck a chord with members.

Broadly speaking, minister, do you agree? Is there a job of work to be done in sharing good practice in local leadership to make CPPs more effective?