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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 July 2025
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Displaying 2048 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 April 2024

Bob Doris

Okay, you can let—

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 April 2024

Bob Doris

I am not really that bothered, cabinet secretary, but if you can write to us just to confirm, that would be helpful.

We heard that there could be a little uncertainty in relation to the appeal routes for recovery of Social Security Scotland and DWP benefits. There was an understanding that there could be a separate Scottish system, as opposed to a partnership agreement or an agency agreement with DWP. It would be helpful if you could clarify what that process will look like and whether you intend to have a partnership or agency agreement or do otherwise.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 April 2024

Bob Doris

My question follows on from Marie McNair’s earlier question and is about whether the redetermination process should remain or whether individuals who are appealing should go straight to the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service. It is fair to say that we had conflicting evidence from third sector and advice groups on that. Some people thought that it was vital that the redetermination process stayed and others thought that it got in the way. The sector was not speaking with one voice on the issue.

I was wondering, however, whether redeterminations could be run in tandem with the tribunals service. Let me say what I mean by that. If there were no redeterminations and if things went straight to a tribunal, I think that, pretty quickly, Social Security Scotland would do a very quick review of any application to ensure that it got it right in the first place and a lot of applications to the tribunal would never get there anyway.

Is it possible to have a hybrid system, and might the Government think about that? I am not saying that that idea is well thought out or that there are not lots of potential unintended consequences, but we are progressing this proposed legislation and I was wondering whether a hybrid system is possible. Is that something that the Government could consider?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Poverty and Inequality Commission Appointments

Meeting date: 18 April 2024

Bob Doris

Thank you for the opportunity, convener.

It was good to hear from those seeking to be commissioners and the new chair informally before this meeting. I have just a brief observation to make. I was struck by the diverse mix of candidates, who range from people in academia and policy research to people involved at the coalface of planning, service delivery, working daily on the ground with young people and families to tackle poverty and people with direct lived experience. We want our commissioners to have that diverse range of skills and experiences, to be a critical friend of Government and to be fiercely independent. From what I heard this morning, I am enthused by the candidates who will, I hope, take up those roles.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 April 2024

Bob Doris

My goodness, cabinet secretary. Do you mean that I have got the Government to move within seconds, if it is not affirmative? That is a first.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 April 2024

Bob Doris

To double check, does that mean that the system might mirror the DWP route but that there will not necessarily be an agency agreement?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 April 2024

Bob Doris

That was the clarity that witnesses wanted, so they will welcome that. Convener, my other questions are not related to this theme, and I do not know whether there is any time for them.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 April 2024

Bob Doris

In England and Wales, the Department for Work and Pensions already has a system of compensation recovery. For those who are not aware of that system, I note that if a person receives benefits as a direct result of injury, accident or disease but later gets compensation, the compensator must reimburse the DWP for those benefits. I welcome the fact that a similar system will be put in place in Scotland through the bill that we are scrutinising.

The bill will make it a criminal offence for the compensator not to comply with those requirements, but the power to make that a criminal offence will be in regulations—secondary legislation—not in the bill. That was of significant concern to the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, because that is not the normal way in which such matters are conducted. Why did the Scottish Government not take the option of putting that power in the bill?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 April 2024

Bob Doris

That is helpful. I am not suggesting that the approach has not been taken in the past, but the DPLR Committee looks at such matters weekly across all Government legislation and has said that what is being done stands out as an outlier when compared with the approach that the Government normally takes. We echo some of the concerns.

Has work taken place to flesh out what should be in the bill if the Parliament decides that it wants such provisions to be included? I am open minded either way.

10:45  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Social Security (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 April 2024

Bob Doris

I will follow up on that very briefly, convener. Again, we will have to reflect on whether that is the right level of parliamentary scrutiny. I put on the record that I was not suggesting that that would be the right level of scrutiny; I just wanted to know what the level of scrutiny would be.