Chamber and committees

I call Katy Clark.

I have a more policy-related question for Mr Simpson. An act was passed in the UK Parliament and you have introduced this bill about MSPs. When you started working on it and were looking at it in its infancy, did you consider expanding the bill to include local authority councillors?

Is the committee content with the instrument?

Members indicated agreement.

The purpose of this instrument is to change employee contribution rates by amending the Firefighters’ Pension Scheme (Scotland) Regulations 2015 (SSI 2015/19). The committee asked whether the title of the instrument should in fact be the “Firefighters Pension Scheme (Scotland) Amendment Regulations 2025”. The Scottish Government agreed that that would be the more appropriate title. It regretted the departure from drafting convention but considered that the meaning, understanding or effect of the instrument would not be affected by the form of the title in this case.

Does the committee wish to draw the instrument to the attention of the Parliament on the general reporting ground, in respect of the fact that its title is not in line with drafting convention?

Members indicated agreement.

Does the committee also wish to note that the Scottish Government intends to correct a minor cross-referencing error identified by the committee as soon as possible, through a correction slip?

Members indicated agreement.

Agenda item 4 is an evidence-taking session with Graham Simpson MSP, the member in charge of the Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill. He is accompanied by?Catriona Lyle, a solicitor from legal services at the Scottish Parliament. I welcome you both to the meeting and, indeed, welcome Mr Simpson back to the committee, even for just a short time, as he convened the committee in the last parliamentary session.

I remind you both that you do not have to press any buttons, as that will be done for you. We will move to questions.

It is quite rare to see an express power to legislatively sub-delegate in a bill. The committee is keenly interested in that, as it has the potential to erode democratic accountability. It is one thing to give Scottish ministers the power to make regulations, but it is another to give Scottish ministers the power to award that power to a third party.

With that in mind, it would be helpful if you could provide the committee with further context to that proposal in the bill. Is there a precedent that served as a model for section 21 of the bill?

No problem.

As there are no further questions, I thank Mr Simpson and Ms Lyle for their evidence this morning. The committee might follow up in writing if additional questions stem from this morning’s session. Thank you once again.

That concludes the public part of the meeting.

The committee asked two questions on this instrument, which, from 1 August 2025, amends the eligibility criteria for membership of the Scottish teachers’ pension scheme by amending the principal regulations for the scheme—the Teachers’ Pension Scheme (Scotland) (No 2) Regulations 2014 (SSI 2014/292).

The first question was whether it had been intentional to include a definition of “immediately before” in schedule 1, thus suggesting that the definition applies in each place where it appears, including references in both the new provisions that are inserted by this instrument and existing provisions. The Scottish Government confirmed that the intention had been for the definition to apply only to the new provisions. However, it considers that, in the context of the other 13 provisions, the new definition is inoperative and therefore of no effect.

The second question relates to proposed new paragraph 16(1)(d) of schedule 1 to the principal regulations, as inserted by regulation 4(c) of these amendment regulations. The committee asked the Scottish Government what the words

“this part of the scheme”

meant in the paragraph, and whether its meaning was sufficiently clear. The Scottish Government confirmed that the paragraph is meant to have effect in relation to the scheme as a whole, as established by the principal regulations, and the unintentional ambiguity is regretted. The Scottish Government intends to clarify both issues in the next amending instrument.

Does the committee wish to draw the instrument to the attention of the Parliament on the general reporting ground in that the definition of “immediately before”, as inserted into schedule 1 of SSI 2014/292 by regulation 3 of the instrument, was intended to apply in relation to that term only where it appears in proposed new paragraphs 15B, 15C and 15D, but has been applied to all instances where that term appears in schedule 1; and that the reference to

“this part of the scheme”

in proposed new paragraph 16(1)(d) to schedule 1 of SSI 2014/292, as inserted by regulation 4(c) of the instrument, should be a reference to the scheme as a whole? Does the committee wish to note that the Scottish Government has undertaken to clarify those points in the next amending instrument?

Members indicated agreement.

Welcome to the 19th meeting in 2025 of the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee. I remind everyone to please switch off or put to silent your mobile phones and other electronic devices.

The first item of business is a decision on taking business in private. Is the committee content to take items 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 in private?

Members indicated agreement.