Chamber and committees

Could we get more detail on that in writing?

Your point about 90 per cent of care taking place in the community is a good one, and it brings me back to my first question. Most of the time, nobody much is caring for many of the chronically ill, so it does not cost the country visibly, because those people are cared for by their parents, their husbands or their wives. There is also the loss to the working world, as well as the effect on people as individuals. Therefore, I can see why it looks like that from your side, when you look at the figures that are being spent in the NHS, which is why we are interested in having more visibility of these invisible areas.

I was interested in Jack Middleton’s point that we do not realise that it is mainly working-class men who have problems with addiction, but, of those who are affected by the conditions that I am talking about, 75 per cent are women, and I would suggest that there is not enough focus on them. I certainly hope that we will come back to that issue. I hope that, when you go home or go back to work, you will have a look at what is said in our later panel sessions.

We are running out of time. I am sorry that we do not have time for closing statements, but I know that you will send us any information that you think that we have missed, and I am sure that we will see you all again. Thank you very much for coming.

09:59

Meeting suspended.

10:05

On resuming—

Thank you, Jane. I am sorry to hear that the situation has not improved.

Kirstin, do you want to give a closing comment?

In that case, we will move on to Kayleigh Kinross-O’Neill.

Thank you. It is interesting to hear that there are sometimes no applicants for specialist jobs. I would like to ask Dr Murray-Cavanagh from the BMA what we could do about that problem. I have in mind a specific example, which relates to the allocation of money for a specialist to help people with long Covid and ME. According to NHS Fife, no one applied for that job, so it was a case of “job done.” There is an issue there to do with continuing professional development, but it also relates to the wider point that was made by Ms McKenna. How do we get specialists below doctor level, and how do we co-ordinate that?

I had to get in at the end.

Thank you very much.

I thank all the witnesses for giving us their time. It has been very informative and I am sorry that there has not been more time. If the committee should have heard anything from you that you did not have time to bring forward, you are welcome to send it in.

11:03

Meeting suspended.

11:10

On resuming—

Good morning—it is still morning, although it feels like we have been here a while. I thank our witnesses for coming. We have with us Janet Sylvester from #MEAction Scotland; Sara Redmond from the Health and Social Care Alliance Scotland; Kenny Stewart from Scottish Action for Mental Health; Stuart McIver and Jane Ormerod, who joins us remotely, from Long Covid Scotland; and Kirstin Laing from the chronic pain group.

I particularly thank those who are not well for joining us. I know that it takes a toll, so we are very appreciative of you for coming. Perhaps you can start by spending a few minutes saying what you want to put across to the committee before we ask our specific questions. We will start with Janet Sylvester, if that is okay, and then move to the long Covid reps, because we have a couple of questions on that. I will come to the others after that.

I take it that that means that you are not recognised enough for that to be a recognised route.

Anyway, I imagine that you do not have the ability to take on referrals. You are a volunteer organisation, and I presume that nearly all of you have long Covid. I know that it is a similar case in #MEAction.

Sara, did you want to say something?

Thank you, Kenny.

I will give Janet Sylvester a chance to give a closing statement, but I hope that she does not mind if I give a bit of background about the ME community, given that we did not really go there.

For the benefit of the committee, and those members who might not know, I point out that ME has been known about, under different names, for several decades now. Many people, some of whom are in #MEAction, have been ill for decades. Those with long Covid, which is appalling, are unfortunately looking at the ME community, which is already there, and thinking, “That could be us.”

12:15

There is a lot of talk about prevention, but we do not know how to prevent anybody from getting these conditions. They are mostly post-viral conditions—that is the general conclusion nowadays—and there is general acceptance that they are neurological, among other things, and not psychological, but GPs do not necessarily know that. Janet Sylvester referred to people being given advice to exercise, and we know that many people have been badly affected by that. There is data on that from survey work.

Is there evidence that doctors are getting better at dealing with people with ME? I will not ask you whether the numbers are increasing, because there are people with long Covid now. There is a spectrum. I am not saying that everybody is the same—it depends on what they had originally. For both groups, is there any evidence that doctors are dealing with the conditions any better, or are people still struggling to find somebody who is sympathetic and gives the right advice?

Are the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines being followed in Scotland? It took several years for us to get the NICE guideline for ME, which was introduced in England in 2021, adopted in Scotland—I declare an interest, as I was involved in that work—and for doctors to be educated about the condition.