Chamber and committees

That point has been made to me as well. People who seek a legal aid solicitor might find that challenging in some cases. Some good pieces of work have been done that have had a positive impact on that, but there is more to do.

I anticipate that part of the reform work will deal with that, and we hope that we always have a focus on access to justice. Concerns that have been raised with me include geographical ones, which are about people not being in the same location as a solicitor who can offer a specialism in the area of law that they seek. It is important to say that there is no necessity for a person who is looking for legal aid to be in the same geographical location as the solicitor. It is absolutely possible for people to be in different locations, and it happens. As we all know, a lot more work is now done online, and there is also a degree of travelling.

Reform will provide opportunities to be a little more innovative in how we deliver the services, and that will, I hope, deal with some of those geographic issues. We should not underestimate the potential for centres to deliver different legal aid services, and there is also the potential for more online work. However, I am mindful of the geographic challenges that have been highlighted. In a rural or island community, where a limited number of solicitors might be available, if two parties who are in dispute with each other are both looking for a solicitor but there is only one, that can present challenges.

I am certainly very alive to that, and I know that there will be feedback about it. If people have more feedback, they can send it into the consultation. I hope that we can deal seriously with the issue during the period to come.

On street homelessness, I may ask officials to come in if I am missing information. Legal aid is means tested, but it strikes me that, obviously, the means would be a challenge if someone is in such a difficult position. If you are thinking of a particular point when it comes to the interaction between street homelessness and legal aid, I would be very happy to hear it. Fundamentally, the system is there for people who do not have the means to deal with it themselves, so it strikes me that that might be relevant to somebody who is experiencing street homelessness.

On domestic abuse, there is, as I said, a need for reform, which is why we are committed to a legal aid bill. At the moment—this may go back to Amanda Lindsay’s question as well—the system continues to move forward, even though the reform track is running. The Scottish Legal Aid Board has updated its guidance to say that it realises that it can be difficult for applicants who have had to flee an abusive or controlling relationship to be able to provide documentation, for instance. That is a tangible reality. The Scottish Legal Aid Board says that it will use its discretion in such situations to disregard income or capital where it considers that that is reasonable. It is a change not in the policy but in the understanding and appreciation of the different challenges that people face.

Legal aid is available to people who are victims of domestic violence and who seek protection if they meet the statutory eligibility criteria, but I think that that is really your point—that there should not be another kind of test. However, that may also be the point that I am making about reform, and I ask people to feed their views and thoughts on it into the consultation.

As things stand, the steps that the Scottish Legal Aid Board is taking will make it somewhat easier for people in very difficult situations to navigate the system, which can be challenging for anyone who has had to flee a situation in their home and who may not have access to bits of paper. That should not be an impediment to accessing justice.

That is a really helpful explanation.

We are absolutely committed to the policy that underpins part 1 of the act, on the removal of perpetrators and the ability to engage with the courts.

There are some operational challenges, as you have outlined. The tight timescales are part of that, but you can understand the underpinning logic, and there is a need to ensure that you take account of the situations of the people involved, too.

It is quite a complex situation. That being said, we have a plan to get on and deal with that level of complexity. An implementation board and an operational group have been set up to look at the logistical issues and operational challenges. Engagement has included Scottish Women’s Aid, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and Police Scotland—people who have an absolute knowledge of the system and of people’s experience of it. The previous Minister for Victims and Community Safety was part of the discussions, and a short-life working group was established to look at whether there was potential for change in relation to the existing legislation. Perhaps that feeds into Meghan Gallacher’s earlier remarks on the need, first, to identify whether there is a challenge and, then, to take steps to act.

The operational group has met several times over a short period of months. It has identified a number of issues on which we will consult shortly. I hope that that tangible action will allow us to get past the structural barriers that you have described to us, so that we are in a better position to ensure that the system will work for people. You talked about court time and so on as part of that, and those are the kind of challenges that we hope that the consultation will allow us to fathom out with people.

I understand why you would be interested in that. There has been a significant increase in the number of people who are looking to get powers of attorney. There is a backlog there, which is not desirable. In case it is helpful to anyone who is watching or listening to the committee, I say that if there is a need for something to be expedited, that will happen. I say that reassuringly; it is important for people to be aware of that, because when someone needs something to be expedited, they will probably be in a very difficult situation or at a difficult time in their life.

That does not take away from the substantive point that there is a delay there, which means that people are waiting longer than is reasonable or than they ought to, to get powers of attorney. The figures show that, since 2021-22, there has been a 39.5 per cent increase in the number of applications. That is a large increase, but it is not okay for there to be delays to the extent that there are.

How do we deal with that, aside from expediting pinch-point cases? Funding has been delivered in that area. However, the Office of the Public Guardian has had a substantially increased number of applications, and its challenge is to work its way through those two issues. The Office of the Public Guardian has a new case management system, which went live in February last year, and it is working through the post-bedding-in period. There was a necessary bedding-in period; the two-track approach that was used before that bedding-in period has ended. The benefits of the new system were not seen quite as quickly as, perhaps, the office—and we—had hoped they would be.

The Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service probably also hears the point that you made, and it has prioritised investment in the Office of the Public Guardian in acknowledgement of that. This might be a point to come back to, but I understand why the SCTS has done that and hope that it might make the difference, because such a delay is not okay.

I am happy to come back and do so. Would it be helpful to talk about child welfare reporters, convener, or is that for another occasion?

It is an area of significant interest and concern to all of us across Parliament. This is one of our manifesto commitments. The reason for that, and part of the focus on violence against women and girls, is the shared concern that we all have about the real and growing challenges that are so obvious to all of us.

On some of the detail, misogynistic harassment could be dealt with in that space. More broadly, the need for us to pin down exactly what we are talking about here—if we are talking about misogyny and how the bill fits together with the other strategies and measures that we have in place—is a real opportunity for us to make constructive, deliverable change. That is absolutely what we need to do, while acknowledging that misogyny is a significant issue and ensuring that the bill is underpinned by clear and specific provisions.

I am probably limited in the detail that I can give at this point. However, as part of the broader push, it is profoundly important to pull all the levers that we can to deal with violence against women and girls.

11:15

There was a Scottish statutory instrument that made the stirring up of hatred on the basis of sex an aggravated offence. This is all part of the same broad area of concern, and the misogyny bill and the strategy to deal with technology-facilitated violence against women and girls are all part of the same piece of work, which is very much cross-portfolio work. There will be a number of voices involved, which is healthy, because it is a subject that should occupy all ministers and all parliamentarians. I do not know whether that answers your question, but I am happy to give further detail if you want me to address other elements.

I absolutely believe that the misogyny bill needs to be introduced, because there are questions to be answered and action is necessary. That is my very strong view on that. I reiterate that we are taking significant action in relation to violence against women and girls, and, from the members in the room, I take it that we all support that. That action and the planned action are needed now and they are all tangibles that should deliver the reduction of violence against women and girls, which is the whole purpose. I hope that we might come back to that conversation.

Thank you for flagging that.

Again, I will start at the end of that question. I absolutely affirm my commitment to making sure that, through my job, I do everything that I can to make the operation of justice and access to justice work as well as possible. I am not accustomed to speaking for others, but it is safe for me to speak for the cabinet secretary on this. I know that he is absolutely committed to making sure that justice is accessible and fair, and that we do everything possible to make sure that, within the existing systems, or by taking steps to amend those systems, we have a structure in place that is effective, transparent and fair and that works well for all the groups in our communities. Of course, it should also work well with the other elements of the system, such as law enforcement and the criminal side, although that is perhaps more for the Criminal Justice Committee. All those things have to come together, and it is absolutely our focus to ensure that that happens, but with people at the centre.

You said that there is pressure on the system, and it is absolutely right to point that out. Significant work has been done to update, review and reform in different areas of justice. That is necessarily an ongoing job of work, and a good deal of work is going on. It is probably helpful for me to circle back to public service reform, which I mentioned at the beginning, and to point to the Government’s absolute focus on making sure that our systems work in the most efficient and effective way to serve the people whom we are here to serve.

I am mindful of the time constraint, so the final thing that I will say is that, where there are gaps in implementation, we are absolutely mindful of those, and I hope that we are constructive in making sure that action plans are in place. I know from speaking to officials that a significant body of work is under way to ensure that things are done properly so that there are tangible results for people, which is ultimately what we want from our work here.

I will pause before the convener stops me.

I apologise to Holly Bruce for my ironic facial expression. I am aware of harassment on buses and have experienced it myself. The bus is my predominant means of transport, which I hope gives me quite a lot of insight into the various challenges—and the many positives—of using it.

Considering all the buses that I take and have taken, I take some reassurance from the fact that I have not often experienced harassment. However, just one incident of anyone being harassed on a bus is absolutely one too many. It is totally and wholly unacceptable for people to face harassment, which I accept is a reality. What Holly Bruce said is true: people do face harassment and it is often very gendered. That is not the only kind of harassment, however; people also experience other kinds of harassment in public spaces and that is also wholly unacceptable.

I can say a couple of things about the issue, although there are some areas on which I would need to seek further advice. I am happy to do that and to write to Holly Bruce. It is absolutely not okay for anyone to experience harassment and we must be upfront in saying that it is simply unacceptable. Nonetheless, bus provision and the bus network are real positives in our communities, as is the ability to get from A to B cheaply, especially if you live in the west of Scotland or if you are younger, older or have a disability. We must not let the challenges that Holly Bruce outlined take anything away from that.

Regarding how people’s experiences in public places, including on buses, might interact with legislation, it may be a bit early to get too far into the weeds of that, but I would be happy to take that away, have some conversations and write to Holly Bruce, because we need to ponder how best to deal with that issue.

Holly Bruce made a profoundly important point about the need for social change. The First Minister’s comments about violence against women and girls, but also about social cohesion, are really important and are not just talk. It matters to say clearly what we mean, what we stand for and who we want to be as a country, but we need underpinning action on community cohesion to be part of any action—including the misogyny bill—on violence against women and girls. That is all part of driving change so that people do not think that any of the actions that Holly Bruce mentioned are acceptable and so that everyone can go about their business in a far more peaceful way, without worry.

The final thing to say is that we appreciate that there is a lot of work to do in those areas. That work will cut across portfolios and we are absolutely committed to doing it.