Chamber and committees

We could, yes.

I would not presume that all members are supportive, given what some of their parties have said over the piece. We chose that area because we wanted to take on the very complex challenge of the SPT area—I am jesting somewhat.

The reality is that there is now a £2 bus fare cap in place across 60 per cent of Scotland’s land mass, covering 50 per cent of the population. Bus usage in the SPT area is fairly extensive but it is not where we want it to be, so the ability to expand into such a populous area, where we know that bus usage is high, was the driving force behind the decision. We will now seek to deliver on our commitment to the rest of Scotland to go further with that. However, before I go further, I want to thank operators for the manner in which they approached discussions in recent months, and officials for the unbelievable work that they did behind the scenes to make this possible—to do as you have said, which was to deliver for people during a cost of living crisis. The significant reduction in fares that people are going to experience in the SPT area—pretty much the entire west of Scotland—which builds on the Highlands and Islands scheme, is excellent. It is what we committed to deliver, and I am very proud that we have done that.

Yes. I think that we have a shared aspiration on that, and I do not feel any pushback from anyone in that regard, and I would not expect any.

I am amazed at the work that Chris Wilcock undertakes in relation to his communication with partners in the delivery of services and the personal interaction that exists between him and others with people in the island communities. That should be a starting point for what we go on to create, and I am happy to work closely with him in that regard.

I go back to my previous comment: if we were to design something, I am not sure that we would design it in the way that it currently exists. We can do better, and that is our intention.

10:30

A lot of work has already been undertaken, both by the predecessor committee and through project Neptune, and early discussions are under way about what the proposal looks like and whether it is deliverable. That will ultimately depend on the options that come to me, but we want to move at pace on public sector reform, and it is part of that process. I will hopefully be in a position, the next time that I attend the committee, to give you a full update on timelines.

Of course. If that has not already been done, it will be. When the routes were removed over the summer, financial support was provided through the NHS to make sure that patients were able to get access to the treatment that was required. On next steps, it is important that we lay down all the options and look at everything.

Something that has been mooted to me extensively is the ability to reflect what happens in other countries, such as the hub-and-spoke model. We kind of have that in Orkney, I suppose, because flights go from different locations to one hub and people then fly to the mainland. Although that might be something that others do, we would need to collectively have a proper think about whether folk on Barra would want to fly up to Stornoway before flying to Glasgow, and whether they would see that as an improvement. The alternate models have their problems, too.

When it comes to public service obligations, we must be cognisant of the European Union regulations. If I remember correctly, article 16(1) alludes to the scope to intervene when a commercial flight is already provided, but article 3 would indicate that there is no such scope. The Department for Transport guidance is quite clear that we would not be able to intervene on a PSO basis on a route if we were seeking to increase patronage, and numbers are low on some of the routes.

Those are some of the issues that we need to thrash out. I hope that I have indicated that I have read about this in detail. I am trying to find a solution, and bringing everyone together is part of that. There is no easy fix, but a hell of a lot of public money is going into this, so we need to try to do better.

It is impossible not to consider the air fares as a barrier to some people being able to access those services. The ADS is in place to try to mitigate some of that, but pressures continue to accrue. That is an important point to raise, alongside the importance of PSOs and potential other aviation models that we could use to transport people from the islands to the mainland and vice versa. That is why it is important that you had the evidence session with HIAL and Loganair, and it is why I have proactively sought to further engage with all of you to try to find an amicable outcome that recognises the inherent conflicts that exist between all these various things.

Let me not give the committee an incorrect answer about when I was formally made aware of the situation. If memory serves me correctly, it was at the time when everything was coming into the public domain, as Loganair had made a commercial decision. If you would like me to follow up on the exact timing of when I received an email, I am quite happy to do that.

Why was I not presented with it? Because HIAL and Loganair were in commercial discussions.

I cannot make a decision on providing additional support until I know what the ask is.

Absolutely. I have come to the conclusion that better buses legislation does not necessarily have to be a stand-alone bill. It could be multiple bills that do multiple things and allow us to more quickly make interventions that are specific in nature. We will look at the wider holistic approach to our bus network but, if there is an opportunity to do something quickly and effectively, we should not be constrained by waiting for one overarching bill. I am keen to move at pace to make sure that our public transport network operates as well as it possibly can. I hope that that offers you some reassurance.

As part of the process, I have already had a meeting with operators, regional bodies and representatives of passengers. Everyone’s views matter—and when I say that, I mean that the committee’s view matters a lot as well. I am willing to work with you and with members from across the Parliament to identify where we can make significant changes at pace to improve outcomes for passengers who want to go about their business in a cost-effective way. We want to build on the commitment that we have made in relation to the £2 cap.