Chamber and committees

Are those targets non-negotiable? Is the cabinet secretary still committed to meeting those child poverty targets?

I am pleased to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour and to confirm that we will support the general principles of the bill at decision time.

It is important that we acknowledge at the outset the principles of the bill, which are to improve people’s experiences of Social Security Scotland, to ensure value for money in the system and to ensure that the system evolves and does not become stagnant. We welcome many of the actions in the bill, including those that will ensure that the Scottish child payment is on a statutory footing and those that develop the framework for new benefits such as care experience assistance. We will support changes to our social security system in Scotland that continue to support people to live in dignity and free from poverty, because that aspiration is shared across the Parliament.

It is no secret that I and my colleagues have often been persistent in our critique and in holding the Government to account for many of the challenges that have been experienced in the roll-out of social security in Scotland. It is five years since Social Security Scotland was created and there have been a number of issues, including overspends on information technology infrastructure, the unacceptably long processing times for claims for many benefit payments and the long waiting times for clients who have called Social Security Scotland. As we have recognised in the chamber, long waiting times have meant, tragically, that more than 100 people have died while waiting for their adult disability payment claims to be processed. They were denied the payments that they were entitled to.

It is clear to me that there are many lessons to be learned and many improvements that we can make. We will continue to scrutinise every detail and action of the Government and the relevant bodies in the devolved social security system as they continue to evolve and develop.

In the vein of being constructive in my criticism, and in the spirit of the partnership working that the cabinet secretary said in her opening speech that she aspires to, I also want to highlight the successes of Social Security Scotland. The Scottish child payment has been a welcome evolution in the landscape, and Labour members have been proud to support it from its inception and through its development. Recently, the Social Justice and Social Security Committee has been taking evidence on its impact, and I am pleased to see the qualitative reports on the impact that it is having on some families, while recognising that there are calls for caution on the quantitative analysis, with the Joseph Rowntree Foundation and others pointing out that we still need more data. I hope that the Scottish Government has heard those calls for better data so that we can continue to scrutinise and make improvements in the system.

I also hope that, in her concluding remarks, the cabinet secretary will be able to say something about the improvements that we can make to the Scottish child payment. As I have said, we welcome its being put on a statutory footing, but it would be good to understand what further work the Government is doing as we move to put it on a statutory footing. That also goes for any potential new benefits, such as care experience assistance. We want to get a sense of where, potentially, the Government will consult in the future and what plans it has to develop that benefit.

On the other provisions in the bill—which is as imperfect as all bills are at stage 1—I know that the cabinet secretary will seek to work across parties to make improvements throughout stages 2 and 3. Indeed, the committee’s stage 1 report highlighted some of the concerns that we heard in evidence and some of the challenges that were put to the Government. We have already heard the cabinet secretary speak about section 6 of the bill and many of the challenges that were raised on how the audit process might affect more vulnerable individuals. It is welcome that the Government has taken cognisance of the evidence that was heard. As the bill progresses, we will continue to work to ensure that we improve those provisions.

We also heard about new regulations that are still not within the scope of scrutiny of the Scottish Commission on Social Security. That is of concern. We all know that SCOSS provides a vital body of expert scrutiny on the development and implementation of new payments and regulations, so it is important that we continue to empower it to scrutinise and to ensure that the right decisions are made for those who access social security payments.

Other changes to the bill will be needed. Many of our third sector and anti-poverty organisations have outlined those in the briefing material that they provided in advance of the debate. I know that the cabinet secretary and her officials also have thoughts on amendments that are required. It would be helpful to know the direction of travel and the areas of priority for the Government as soon as possible, so that we can work together.

Scottish Labour will engage with all ideas for the bill that can further enhance social security in Scotland, to ensure that it will live up to the promise of dignity, fairness and respect. I hope that the bill is a positive development that will move us in the right direction and ensure that our systems continue to bed in. Assuming that its general principles are agreed to at stage 1 this evening, I look forward to its development as it progresses.

I thank the cabinet secretary for advance sight of her statement.

When Scottish Labour left office in 2007, we had brought down relative child poverty after housing costs, from 31 per cent to 24 per cent, and the previous UK Labour Government lifted 1 million children out of poverty. After 17 years of an SNP Government since then, the relative child poverty rate is still at 24 per cent—it is static—yet the figures appear to be hailed as a success in today’s statement. That is a particular indictment on the party in government, which has made a virtue of bold rhetoric on eradicating child poverty, yet has failed to make progress under successive leaders.

Members will not hear any complaint from me on the point that the Tories have been a disaster for working families. It is clear that people will have a chance to pass their verdict on the Tory Government in a number of weeks, but the Scottish Government must answer for its policies here today.

The number for in-work poverty has risen from 51 per cent to 70 per cent in the past 17 years. Would the Government therefore recognise that we need a new deal for working people? We need to make work pay. We need to ensure that people have their rights at work, so that we can lift more children out of poverty. On the poverty targets, which I did not hear very much about from the cabinet secretary today—

We had a discussion last week about keeping people in poverty versus lifting people out of poverty, and about the relevance of the poverty line. Do you have a view on the terminology?

I want to follow up an exchange in the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee about what qualifies as a temporary break in care. A concern was raised about people who are in a period of legal detention and whether the policy intention that that would qualify as a temporary break in care would be met by the regulations. I understand that there was an exchange of letters to confirm that that is still the policy intention, but does the cabinet secretary want to put anything on the record about that concern, which was raised by that committee?

Other—

I return to the point about data. You have provided helpful qualitative evidence, and we heard some of that last week, too. However, the Joseph Rowntree Foundation has said that we cannot reach definitive conclusions because of a lack of data, despite the encouraging evidence that you have all referred to. What data do we need?

Secondly, the Government talks about 60,000 children being “kept out” of poverty, but I am aware that that model uses a range of factors that are based on an invented or imagined scenario in which certain Government policies do not exist and the Scottish child payment is held up against that. I am keen to hear your views on the accuracy of that model. Jack, would you like to start?

Good morning. We are particularly interested in understanding the effectiveness of the child payment in reducing poverty. The first broad question that I am keen to get the panel’s views on is what we know so far about the effectiveness of the child payment in lifting children out of poverty.

Other panel members may want to reflect on the point about data but, in the interest of time, we are also keen to understand the extent to which the Scottish child payment is impacting on deep and persistent poverty. Do we need to do more work on those specific families in order to understand the picture? Ruth Boyle might want to answer first.

To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to address food poverty, in light of the recent figures published by the Trussell Trust showing that its network distributed 262,400 emergency food parcels in the last 12 months. (S6O-03502)