Chamber and committees

Lesley Black, you might want to respond to that question, but I have another question that I would also like to put to you.

Based on what we have heard, it seems that, often, redeterminations and appeals are based on further information that has been provided. How easy would it be to try to obtain that information during the initial decision making? Do you have any suggestions on how we could address that, so that the information is captured at the earliest possible stage?

Thank you. Does anyone else want to come in on that question?

Gayle Devlin, do you want to come in to conclude this part of the questioning?

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on what action it is taking to help resolve the industrial dispute by lecturers. (S6O-03342)

Lecturers have been taking action short of strike action since February. Despite that action being lawful, colleges have been threatening to deduct up to 100 per cent of lecturers’ pay, even when they attend work as normal. Does the minister agree that that is completely unacceptable?

Surely the point is not the length of the bill but the number of system changes that are proposed in it.

I thank the cabinet secretary for that intervention, and I look forward to the Scottish Government bringing forward proposals for provisions in the text of the bill that would enable that to be a reality not just over the current or subsequent session of Parliament but as the decades unfold.

We welcome the Scottish Government’s willingness to consider the idea of having a panel of three judges rather than a single judge. That was raised by the committee in respect of the rape trial pilot. However, we are concerned that we still do not have criteria for such a pilot. I know that the cabinet secretary has said that those criteria will come forward, but it would have been helpful if the committee had had that information during its extensive consideration of the legislation over many months.

I understand the point that Christine Grahame makes about comparative justice. My concerns are focused more on the bill as it is currently drafted, as it creates permanent provisions rather than a time-limited pilot, after which we could assess how that pilot had operated.

The Scottish Government has said that conviction rates will not be the criteria that are used—the cabinet secretary was pressed on that point in committee—but it has not indicated what the criteria will be.

Given that I am coming to the end of my allotted time, I will just say clearly that Scottish Labour has listened carefully to the proposals that have been put forward. We are very aware of the need for transformative change in the justice system. We await the Scottish Government’s amendments with interest, and we will lodge amendments to strengthen the bill as it proceeds.

I am pleased to close the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour. I thank all who have worked on the substantial stage 1 report, particularly the clerks and staff who were involved in the drafting.

As has been said, we need transformative change in the justice system for complainers, victims and witnesses. We believe that the status quo is failing women and the victims of sexual offences, who repeatedly describe their experiences as retraumatising. The cabinet secretary said that the bill is needed. It is clear that significant change is needed, but it is less clear that the bill will deliver the change that is needed.

Labour believes that it was unwise of the Scottish Government to come forward with so many changes to the system in one bill, often without sufficient detail. For example, the proposals on anonymity are important but have not been given sufficient scrutiny. One of the main concerns of complainers was the impact that delays have on the criminal justice system, but the provisions in the bill are unlikely to have an impact on that.

The bill also does not introduce measures such as having a single point of contact, which is significant and could make a big difference. Many parts of the public sector are already very aware of trauma-informed practice, so legislation is not needed to drive that further. In many other countries, complainers and rape victims have access to independent legal representation, often from before they report an incident to the police until after the conclusion of their trial and after any compensation is paid. The provisions in the bill are narrow and relate only to legal representation in relation to medical evidence. We welcome those provisions, but we believe that there is a strong case for further independent legal representation, particularly for rape victims.

We are particularly concerned about the provisions on change of jury size and jury majority relating to the abolition of the not proven verdict. As has been mentioned a number of times in the chamber, the Lord Advocate gave evidence to the committee that the proposals as they stand could risk fewer convictions. That is obviously of particular significance with regard to rape and other sexual offences cases, for which there are already very low conviction rates. As a representative of survivors said to the committee, that is like

“giving with one hand and taking away with the other.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 6 December 2023; c 17.]

We are disappointed that the Government did not address some of those concerns in more detail in its response to the stage 1 report. We believe that it was unfortunate that the Government sought, in its response, to rely so heavily on the mock jury research. We appreciate that the Scottish Government has said that it

“will give careful consideration to the issues”

that are raised in the committee’s report. However, we would have found it helpful if we had received more substantial responses before the debate today.

We believe that substantial changes are necessary, and we were therefore very interested in the arguments that were put forward in relation to the creation of sexual offences courts. However, we are concerned about the lack of detail in the proposals and about a major reorganisation taking place.

We are particularly concerned, partly because of our experience of previous legislation, about the lack of protections in the text of the bill, such as those relating to rights of audience. We support the creation of specialist divisions in the sheriff courts and High Court to strengthen trauma-informed practice. We support specialisation, and we believe that the rules of court need to be redrafted to take into account the needs and interests of complainers, victims and witnesses. Of course, that does not require legislation.

We believe that, without protections in the text of the bill on issues such as the right to representation by an advocate, we cannot support the provisions. We hope that the Government will come forward with further detail on that aspect as the bill progresses.

Good morning. One aim of the bill is value for money. Compensation recovery could cost up to £5.1 million per year, and estimated income is up to £5.5 million a year. What is the financial justification for bringing in compensation recovery?