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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 November 2025
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Displaying 2809 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

I am going to be very specific now, if I may. I have been approached by a number of whistleblowers and other people who have brought certain things to my attention. I have a list, but I will give you one example that causes me some concern about attitude, culture and internal control.

It has been brought to my attention by a number of people that on 11 August, one of the directors of HES had a dinner with a companion in the Queen Anne building at Edinburgh Castle. The Queen Anne building is a facility that is reserved for parties of up to 40 people and it can cost up to £12,000 to hire—I am not sure whether that includes the catering, but I think that maybe it does. Someone said to me that of that £12,000, £9,000 would come directly back into Historic Scotland. However, two people, a director and a companion, dined in that space alone, which apparently—this is why it has been brought to my attention—is very irregular.

When I read reports that the directors have the attitude—this is an allegation—that they

“walk around like they own our castles”,

and then people said to me that on 11 August, during the time of the tattoo, a director and a companion ate alone in that very prestigious and expensive room, alarm bells rang. You will understand that. A director is treating that property as if it is their own.

If I do a freedom of information request—I intend to do this, by the way; I am giving you advance notice—to discover the circumstances of that event in the Queen Anne building, what will I discover? I think that I might discover that they paid a token amount. Instead of £12,000, did they pay £50 or £100, or maybe nothing at all? Can you understand why I am concerned about internal control and the directors’ attitude towards managing the public finances when that sort of thing is brought to my attention?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

What are the three high-risk maintenance issues that you are looking at?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

There are lots of other questions that I could ask you, but time does not allow it.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

I have some more questions, if it is possible to ask them.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

You talk about needing an increase in funding and say that nothing has changed since 2008—in terms of value, you are on the same as you were on in 2008. What would it take?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

That is from 2008. The funding was £4 million in 2008 and it is still £4 million.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

That would be helpful.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

Culture, obviously, is a critical factor in internal control. One whistleblower is reported to have claimed that board members at Historic Environment Scotland

“walk around like they own our castles”

while ignoring staff complaints.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

Has the head count remained the same or have you had to reduce it?

09:45  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 September 2025

Stephen Kerr

Let us talk about the maintenance backlog. Last time we spoke, it was £17.5 million. It is probably the same or more now. What is it?