Chamber and committees

I am aware of the issues of concern that have been raised by the Faculty of Advocates and the Law Society. I established, and I co-chair—along with the chief executive of the Law Society of Scotland and the dean of the Faculty of Advocates—the future of the legal profession working group, which is examining evidence and identifying measures that we can collectively take to address recruitment and retention in criminal defence.

We recognise the important role of legal aid providers in the justice system, which is why, in recent years, we have provided significant additional funding and increases in remuneration. We have invested £31 million in legal aid since 2021, despite the clear and significant constraints on our finances as a result of the United Kingdom Government settlement. In this financial year, we will provide an £11 million package of legal aid reforms, including an uplift worth 10.2 per cent overall.

Solicitors in all parts of Scotland are able to access funding for the work that is carried out under the legal assistance schemes. The schemes are flexible enough to allow solicitors to travel to rural and remote parts of the country to carry out work, should it be possible to instruct a local agent, although I reiterate that the Scottish Government cannot compel private solicitors to undertake work. However, it is expected that the increase in legal aid fees will have a positive impact on availability and representation.

I echo the thoughts of the other members in the chamber and thank Paul O’Kane for lodging the motion, which gives us a valuable opportunity to speak about the importance of Holocaust memorial day.

The horrors of the Holocaust are a stark reminder of the inhumanity and violence that hatred and prejudice can wreak if left unchallenged. I thank all the members for their powerful, thought-provoking contributions. Despite the political differences that we might have, it is deeply touching to see the chamber united in commemorating everyone who perished during the Nazi atrocities, as well as the millions who were persecuted in the genocides that took place in Cambodia, Rwanda, Bosnia and Darfur.

This year’s theme for Holocaust memorial day is “Fragility of Freedom”. It reinforces the importance of opposing those who threaten the essential freedoms that underpin our society. As history tells us, genocide begins with the erosion of basic liberties. In Nazi Germany, the Jewish, Roma and Sinti people were initially banned from participating in activities that we take for granted, such as attending places of entertainment and enrolling in academia. As we are painfully aware, those cruel and prejudicial acts sowed the seeds of the mass extermination of millions of people.

This Holocaust memorial day marks the 30th anniversary of the genocide against the Tutsi in Rwanda. That tragedy began with restrictions on people’s freedom, as they were instructed to stay indoors and not leave their homes. That created an environment for soldiers and the civilian militia to murder indiscriminately, resulting in the deaths of 75 per cent of the Tutsi population.

We must, of course, also pay tribute to the acts of extraordinary bravery in which people put themselves at great risk to preserve freedom and protect the lives of others by providing food, medication or sanctuary to those targeted for persecution. We should forever be indebted to them for those acts of immense sacrifice.

When we reflect on those tragedies, it is tempting to view them as so abhorrent that we could never possibly allow them to be repeated. We cannot turn a blind eye to the challenges that we face today. We know that there are people whose freedoms are being curtailed and who experience hatred and prejudice because of who they are and the group to which they belong.

That is why the Scottish Government, in our commitment to combating hatred and prejudice, has embarked on an ambitious programme of work. Last November, I spoke at our tackling hate crime and building cohesive communities conference, at which we launched our hate crime strategy delivery plan. The delivery plan shapes how we work in collaboration with our partners to enhance protections for those who are most at risk, while taking meaningful action to prevent hate crime from happening in the first place.

Putting people and communities with lived experience at the centre of our policies is at the heart of our approach, and that is essential to the delivery of our actions. We want to foster communities where everybody feels empowered, included and safe, and we want to address the societal attitudes that lead to the perpetrating of hate crime.

It is unacceptable for anybody to live in fear or to be made to feel as if they do not belong. Preventative work that builds strong, respectful and cohesive communities can stop the narratives that foster prejudice from taking hold.

We are clear that there is no place for hatred or prejudice of any kind in Scotland’s schools. I am sure that members on all sides of the chamber will fully recognise the vital role that schools play in helping our young people to value a diverse and respectful Scotland, supporting them to become responsible and truly global citizens, and helping to counteract prejudice and intolerance. It is essential, therefore, that our curriculum continues to support learners to develop their understanding of others’ beliefs, cultures and traditions alongside their own. Our aspiration is that they feel equipped to go out into the world, to be citizens of the tolerant and inclusive Scotland of which we all want to be part.

This following Tuesday, I, along with the First Minister, will be participating in the Holocaust memorial day Scottish ceremony. I commend our partners at the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust for their continued efforts in organising the event, which will also be attended by Peter Lantos, who is a Holocaust survivor. Chantal Mrimri and Sabina Kadic-Mackenzie, who escaped the genocides in Rwanda and Bosnia respectively, will also be in attendance. I hope to see as many members there as possible, as we stand in solidarity to honour all those who have suffered.

In my final reflection, I remind members that, while the Nazis began consolidating their power, the German journalist Fritz Gerlich warned:

“The worst thing we can do, the absolute worst, is to do nothing”.

This year’s “Fragility of Freedom” theme provides possibly the most poignant illustration of the importance of heeding those words.

It is only through remaining unwavering in our opposition to all forms of hate, and in striving to protect freedom at any cost, that we can prevent genocides in the future, and instead build a better world for everybody.

The member raises a very important point. It is a lack of certainty from the UK Government as to the effect of its legislation that has led to this decision. The UK Government is not certain that English and Welsh dog owners would be committing an offence in selling their XL bully dogs outside England and Wales. I think that the definition in the letter was that that was unlikely. That left the Scottish Government with little choice but to act to ensure that there is no undue risk to public safety in Scotland.

On dog control notices, I met the Perth and Kinross Council dog wardens team recently and I agree that they are doing a great job in using their powers. I think that they have 65 live dog control notices in place. However, we know that not all local authorities make such good use of their powers. I encourage all local authorities to seek to use their preventative powers to help to keep their communities safe, whatever the breed of dog. We will give more consideration to what we can do alongside local authorities to encourage more consistent deployment of their powers to help with dangerous dogs.

For clarity, I note that the statement that the Scottish Government refused to ban XL bully dogs in Scotland, which was in the press, was inaccurate. I wrote to the UK Government in November saying that we would not be following the same timescale as England and Wales.

I thank Ruth Maguire for lodging the motion and bringing the debate to the chamber. I know that she is passionate about ensuring that progress is made in challenging men’s demand for prostitution, as are Rhoda Grant and Ash Regan. I thank them for all the work that they have done in this area, and I thank members for all the contributions in the debate. I was pleased to see that Ruth’s motion on this very important issue had cross-party support.

The debate is very timely, following the recent 16 days of action on violence against women and girls, when the Parliament again came together to send the strong message that violence against women is totally unacceptable. I am sure that we all agree that there is no place for sexual exploitation in Scotland.

I thank the A Model for Scotland alliance for its work in raising awareness of commercial sexual exploitation. Our engagement with members of the alliance is helping to shape the Scottish Government’s framework to challenge men’s demand for prostitution, and its recently published report, “International Insights: How Scotland can learn from international efforts to combat commercial sexual exploitation”, will help to inform the development of our approach.

I am sure that many members will have seen the Women’s Support Project exhibition that was held in the Scottish Parliament in November, which detailed the project’s work over the past 40 years in tackling commercial sexual exploitation. The exhibition highlighted the energy and commitment from stakeholders across Scotland in tackling such exploitation, and the progress that has been made as a result. I am very grateful for the project’s on-going work.

I note Tess White’s contribution and her insight into the model in the Netherlands. I would like to think that if we fast-forward 40 years from now into Scotland’s future, we will—I hope—be living in a Scotland that has overcome the normalisation of behaviours associated with men purchasing sex. It is not acceptable, and challenging those attitudes is key to challenging demand.

Our equally safe strategy recognises commercial sexual exploitation as violence against women and makes clear our collective responsibility to tackle the attitudes that perpetuate it in all its forms. Our efforts to challenge demand are clearly linked to wider aspects of policy. That includes contributing to our efforts to tackle misogyny and the on-going scourge of inequality and poverty, which we know can drive people into exploitation.

In order to truly tackle demand, therefore, we need an approach that considers the full range of social and economic factors that underlie it. Our framework to challenge men’s demand for prostitution and improve support for those with experience of it, which will be published early this year, will bring wider efforts together. It will take an intersectional approach that sets out, for the first time, Scotland’s strategic approach to tackling prostitution. Like the Nordic model, our framework will look at enabling women to exit from prostitution safely and sustainably. It will raise public awareness, including among those who deliver public services. It will also clearly recognise women with experience of selling and exchanging sex as victims of exploitation. I am clear that the framework’s approach will provide the basis for any future consideration of legislation.

As members may be aware, in order to inform the development of our framework, we published “Challenging Demand for Prostitution: An International Evidence Review” on international challenge-demand approaches back in 2022. Both that report and the “International Insights” report from the A Model for Scotland alliance highlight that, in addition to the criminal law, other important components are needed within the challenge demand approach.

We need to continue to learn lessons from those countries that have progressed legislation as a matter of principle, and to understand why that has been so, and why so many today advocate for that. However, I am conscious that such approaches have not always been delivered with the necessary supporting structure, which our framework aims to deliver for those who are looking to move away from prostitution and to effect the societal change that we all know is required.

It is also important to recognise the need to work with international partners to truly address sexual exploitation rather than simply exporting it elsewhere. Our approach recognises that exploitation has no respect for borders. In that regard, Police Scotland continues to work with partners nationally and internationally to bring offenders to justice.

Just yesterday, I met the UK’s new Independent Anti-Slavery Commissioner to discuss trafficking and exploitation strategy. She was very interested in the work that Scotland is currently doing with regard to commercial sexual exploitation. That is key to ensuring that our approach to tackling demand is sustainable and that we have a joined-up and preventative approach.

The importance of a co-ordinated national approach was illustrated well at the commercial sexual exploitation-focused event in Ayrshire at which Ruth Maguire and I spoke during the 16 days of action on violence against women and girls. The event brought together a wide range of practitioners from, for example, housing, health and education, and the power of working collaboratively was evident.

Collaborative working across policy and services was key to the development of the framework’s policy principles, which were published back in 2022. That is a fundamental aspect of the framework, which enables us to build on existing good practice and harness it to deliver a more consistent approach across Scotland.

One of the participants in the “Lived Experience Engagement” research that informed the framework said:

“there’s lots of girls who do this who don’t want to or have nothing else to turn to. They need to know what is out there to help them and who they can talk to.”

Our framework looks to address that, by making support easier to access, through strengthened links between mainstream and specialist services, so that women, at any stage of their journey, can access the support that they need.

At last month’s launch of our trafficking and exploitation strategy refresh, I heard directly from women who had been trafficked for the purpose of commercial sexual exploitation, and meeting them and listening to their stories was incredibly moving. I am grateful for their brave and inspirational contributions, because it is important that we listen and learn.

The importance of trauma-informed justice was one of the issues that was raised. That aligns with the framework’s approach, which acknowledges that people with experience of commercial sexual exploitation are victims of exploitation. Therefore, we will continue to work with Police Scotland and wider justice partners as we look to finalise, publish and implement the framework.

We are also aligning progress with our wider work on delivering trauma-informed justice. That includes ensuring that we build on the conclusions from the report that was published last year on the case for gendered intersectional approaches to justice. That report recognised that supporting women in ways that meet their individual needs could have a powerful impact on their perception of justice, leading to greater trust in the system. To that end, and in parallel with the launch of the equally safe refresh, equally safe in practice training modules are now available to civil servants across the Scottish Government as part of their training offer and development.

It is important that our framework takes an adaptive approach that is cognisant of emerging risks related to commercial sexual exploitation. That includes online behaviours and considering our next generation by ensuring that young people understand the complexities of CSE and how to stay safe online.

We must also remain vigilant within our responses to crises—for example, our collective responses to the cost of living crisis and the on-going conflict in Ukraine.

Recognising the need for an adaptive approach and the need to bring together our approaches to tackle commercial sexual exploitation more holistically, we will establish a new multi-agency group on commercial sexual exploitation, which will support the framework’s implementation.

As I have outlined today, there is clearly positive progress across Scotland in our collective efforts to tackle CSE, but we can and should do more, and our framework will pave the way for that. I look forward to updating the chamber following the framework’s publication.

As I made clear in my statement, the decision has not been taken lightly, but the Scottish Government has been left with little choice. I am aware that there is a range of views about the new safeguards.

We are mindful of the possible impact that the change in the law may have on animal welfare organisations and will continue engaging with those organisations and with other key stakeholders to understand the impact of the regulations that will be introduced to provide safeguards around XL bullies.

The Scottish Government has stated on many occasions that animal welfare is a matter that we take very seriously. I am happy to assure the member that we will continue to work closely with local authorities and animal welfare stakeholders as the matter is progressed. I confirm that I am urgently planning to discuss the issues that stakeholders have raised in my discussions with Gillian Martin, the Minister for Energy and the Environment, who has animal welfare in her remit.

As I said in my statement, the Scottish Government’s decision is not one that we have taken lightly; it reflects the specific circumstances that have arisen. We need to replicate the new safeguards that operate in England and Wales in order to reduce the undue impact on Scotland.

The Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act 2010 is, of course, not focused on any one breed. Its approach is “deed, not breed”. Specific measures to target XL bully dogs take a different approach, which will, of course, run contrary to the overriding principles of the 2010 act.

We need to acknowledge that situations like this one might arise in the future, and we will want to ensure that legislation here in Scotland enables us to keep people safe and enables the effective control of dogs in certain circumstances.

It is important that we engage with Scottish stakeholders, not override them by putting through legislation that comes up from down south. I have been doing so in recent weeks. As the member is aware, throughout the duration of the process—we must not call it “months”, as the process has been very short—the UK Government has been unable to give a definite statement on whether the new controls on selling or giving away XL bullies apply in Scotland. That is why our consideration has changed.

The issue of animal welfare is not only important; it is emotive. The Scottish Government takes animal welfare very seriously and is committed to the highest possible welfare standards. We need to emphasise to people that they must be responsible owners and act responsibly when deciding to buy a dog or take one into their lives.

I have met a number of animal welfare organisations as well as representatives of the British Veterinary Association to discuss XL bully dogs, and I am happy to assure Maggie Chapman that engagement with them and with other relevant stakeholders will continue. For a considerable time, the Scottish Government has engaged with key animal welfare stakeholders, including the veterinary profession, on the issue of low-welfare dog breeding, and we will continue to work with stakeholders to address the issue through the pet trade task force, which is led by the Scottish SPCA.

On the issue of a summit, I will be happy to speak to my ministerial colleague Gillian Martin.

On legislation, as I mentioned in my statement, the Scottish Government will look to work with key stakeholders and interested parties to look at potential improvements to the Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act 2010 that could enhance and strengthen the general preventative dog control notices in Scotland.

On the point about puppies being taken in at the border for rehoming, we will look at the legislation but, at this time, we are looking to replicate what England and Wales are doing. It is my understanding that anybody who has an XL bully dog in Scotland at present will have to follow the safeguarding procedures that we will legislate for.