Plenary,

Meeting date: Thursday, May 16, 2002

Official Report 748KB pdf

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First Minister's Question Time

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Prime Minister (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister when he next plans to meet the Prime Minister and what issues he intends to raise. (S1F-1906)

Before I answer the question, I ask Mr Swinney to pass on my best wishes to Mrs Ewing, who I believe underwent another operation yesterday. I am sure that that sentiment is shared by all members. [Members: "Hear, hear."]

I recently met the Prime Minister in Glasgow, where we celebrated the unveiling of a statue to the first First Minister of Scotland, the late Donald Dewar. I expect that we shall next meet in June, when we shall discuss the knowledge economy.

I thank the First Minister for his remarks regarding Margaret Ewing, which are very much appreciated by my colleagues and especially by her family.

Yesterday, the First Minister's official spokeswoman said that responsibility for youth crime has rested with the minister with responsibility for education since the days of Sam Galbraith. Will the First Minister remind Parliament who was the minister with responsibility for youth crime after Sam Galbraith?

Mr Swinney knows the answer to that question. If he had paid any attention last year, he would also know about the measures that we took to improve the action on youth crime not only of the Executive but of local authorities and other agencies. I hope that he will recall my visits to the secure accommodation centres in Ayrshire and Renfrewshire, one of which was doing an excellent job, although the other drastically needs new investment and modernisation. Secure accommodation is not the only issue for tackling youth crime; a number of other issues must also be addressed. That is exactly why a group of ministers across the Executive will now tackle the issue.

For once in his life, the First Minister is being unduly modest with Parliament. The previous minister with responsibility for education was, of course, our current First Minister. On the news at lunch time today, the First Minister admitted that youth crime policy is not working, and he is right. Sixty-six per cent of car theft is youth crime, 56 per cent of garage theft is youth crime, 44 per cent of vandalism is youth crime, and the First Minister standing before us today was the minister responsible for youth crime. Will the First Minister apologise to the communities of Scotland for whom he has failed to deliver action on youth crime?

I am glad that Mr Swinney has quoted statistics from the document that I drafted before I finished as minister with responsibility for education. Those statistics were published in the document that Cathy Jamieson and I launched earlier this year, which was prepared during my time as Minister for Education, Europe and External Affairs.

I have no doubt that youth crime is an extremely serious issue the length and breadth of Scotland. Last year, it was important for us to ensure that the work of the secure accommodation advisory group, which was preparing future plans on secure accommodation, was refocused and to ensure that we paid due attention to the fact that there appear to be fewer secure accommodation places than are currently needed in Scotland. It was also important to invest, through our local authorities, in restorative justice programmes for young people, to ensure that, if young people are heading into a life of crime, they can be taken away from that avenue and pointed towards a more civilised form of behaviour.

We must also tackle the nub of the issue. There is a group of teenagers who are under 16 but for whom the children's hearing system does not appear to be sufficient. There is also a group of teenagers over 16 for whom a life of adult crime becomes inevitable as soon as they enter the adult criminal justice system. I am absolutely determined to tackle those serious and persistent young offenders. I have no doubt that, right across the Executive and in both parties in the coalition, we will see through that programme and make the difference that is required in every community in Scotland.

That is all very well, but I wonder where the First Minister has been for the past three years as youth crime has continued to go on in the communities of Scotland. Perhaps the answer lies in what the Scottish Executive has done. Since 1999, we have had a policy unit review on youth crime, a strategy session on youth crime, an advisory group on youth crime, a strategy on youth crime, which was delivered late, and an assessment of the strategy. Yesterday, a ministerial group to take stock was announced, and today there is total confusion about whether we are getting specialist youth courts or not. The First Minister had his chance as Minister for Education, Europe and External Affairs and he has had six months as First Minister. Does not he realise that it is a case of three strikes and you're out?

I have been First Minister for about six months and I do not recall Mr Swinney showing any interest in this topic, either since November or before then. Slogans and cheap political points might be enough for the temporary leader of a permanent Opposition, but they are not good enough for Government. I intend to show leadership on the issue.

Youth crime is an issue in every part of Scotland that I have visited over the past few months and MSPs of all parties raise the matter in the chamber. Actions are under way, but in my view they are not enough. We will ensure that, rather than meet social workers and teachers who blame the police, or police officers who blame social workers, or both who blame the courts, or everybody who blames the state of our communities and our housing, we pull all those services and issues together. We will tackle youth crime with real action and we will ensure that the people of Scotland feel safer in their homes.

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Cabinet (Meetings)

To ask the First Minister what issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the Scottish Executive's Cabinet. (S1F-1909)

The Cabinet will be discussing ways to develop our partnership with local authorities.

I thank the First Minister for that answer. I hope that, like Mr Swinney, I might have an opportunity to discuss youth crime, which has been already been referred to.

I remind the First Minister that two weeks ago he assured me at First Minister's question time that it was not the Executive's intention to take repeat offenders

"out of the courts system and place them in the hearings system."—[Official Report, 2 May 2002; c 11568.]

However, the Executive policy memorandum on the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill states that the pilots will include "persistent minor offenders". On radio this morning, the First Minister said that the hearings will be for only a small number of people, but the policy memorandum states that

"as many 16 and 17 year olds as possible would be referred to hearings rather than the courts."

What should we believe? The First Minister's soundbites or the Executive's official policy statement?

I do not have the policy memorandum in front of me, but I do not think that that is an accurate quote from it.

It is important to stress again today what I stressed two weeks ago. I hope that the police officers who were meeting today heard what I said. I understand that they have taken on board the point that was made. There is no intention in this Executive—by any minister—to take those who are repeat serious offenders out of the formal justice system and use the children's hearings approach. If the studies are approved by Parliament, they will be in a limited area and will be for a very small number of people for whom, in the eyes of the fiscal, that is appropriate. That is the right and proper thing for us to do, because we need to find solutions to the problem.

That is only a small part of tackling the issue. Far too many teenagers in Scotland quickly become repeat serious offenders. We need to get them on programmes so that, as I heard one of them say on the radio this morning, they face up to what their victims faced and change their behaviour as a result. We must also ensure that there are enough secure accommodation places and other programmes so that young people can be taken off the streets and put out of sight, so that the people who they currently terrorise are no longer affected by their actions.

I am glad that the First Minister is waking up in part to the problem, but he is now mixing his language. If he reads the Official Report, he will see that two weeks ago he talked about

"serious offenders or repeat offenders".—[Official Report, 2 May 2002; c 11568.]

Now he is talking about repeat serious offenders. There is a significant distinction there.

The quotes that I gave are to be found in paragraphs 233 and 236 of the policy memorandum on the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill. I recommend that the First Minister refreshes his memory. The First Minister's answers to the questions demonstrate that the whole policy on youth crime is in complete and utter disarray.

Mr McConnell walks around like John Wayne, talking tough and making up policies on the hoof. At the same time, he portrays Mr Wallace as some sort of hapless Frank Spencer on youth crime. Who is the First Minister trying to kid? People will take him seriously only when he demonstrates that he is taking the problem of youth crime seriously. If he is serious about a review of youth crime, will he, as a first step, drop the section of the Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill that extends the children's hearing system to 16 and 17-year-olds on a pilot basis, so that we can have a proper review without prejudging the issue?

We should be clear that the bill proposes a limited number of studies. That is the only power that will be taken by ministers in the bill. It is wrong to misrepresent the position.

It is not true that the Executive has taken no action on youth crime. This winter, we allocated £23.5 million to local authority programmes to get under-16s off the streets and to turn around their behaviour before they become criminal adults. A series of improvements in the courts system is planned, which will affect those who are over 16, and improvements are under way in the hearings system, which include new investment to ensure that the system works more effectively in addressing under-16s.

Those actions on a series of issues matter, but there is still a problem on our streets. In every community in Scotland that I visit, one of the first issues that is raised is people's concern not only about graffiti and vandalism—they are bad enough—but about serious disorder on the streets, which keeps people prisoners in their homes. We must ensure that we tackle that problem, which is why we must consider serious offenders in their early teens and those in their late teens. At present, those groups are covered by two different systems, but perhaps we can provide other solutions in the years to come.

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Myalgic Encephalomyelitis

To ask the First Minister whether the Scottish Executive regards myalgic encephalomyelitis as a neurological illness. (S1F-1904)

People with chronic fatigue syndrome/ME can have a variety of symptoms or conditions. The causes are uncertain but it has been suggested that immune, endocrine, neurological or other abnormalities are present in different cases.

Is the First Minister aware that medical text books have referred to ME as a neurological illness since the 1930s and that current discussion in the United States focuses on ME as an illness that affects all the body's systems, including the ones to which he referred, which were the nervous, endocrine and immune systems? Given that, will the First Minister say what he will do specifically to overcome the prejudice in the Scottish medical establishment that persists in labelling ME as a psychiatric or psychologically-based illness, thereby denying to ME sufferers the services and support that they desperately need but do not get in Scotland?

Mr McAllion makes a serious point. I know of his hard work on the issue as convener of the cross-party group in the Scottish Parliament on ME and also of the hard work of Mr Fergusson and other members. I reassure Mr McAllion that I treat CFS/ME as a very serious condition and that I expect those who are involved at every level of our health service to treat the condition in the same way. This morning the chief medical officer made it clear to me that he feels the same way. I assure Mr McAllion that I will make every effort to ensure that that message is put out loud and clear.

I welcome the readiness of the new Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care and the First Minister to engage in serious debate on ME. Given the answers that they have both given today, can the First Minister deny any longer the overwhelming need for a clinic of excellence for ME to be established under the auspices of the national health service? Does he accept that, following the massive increases in funding in the NHS that he has promised, there is no longer any financial hurdle to the establishment of such a clinic? Does he realise that, by taking such a step, Scotland could lead the world in clinical research and curative measures to defeat ME, which costs the national economy more and more with every passing year's inactivity?

Research is on-going and, as Mr Fergusson will know, a short-life action group was set up following the report that was published this spring. It is important that we allow the action group to see its work through to its conclusions, which can be given due consideration by Parliament. I stress again that I view CFS/ME as a serious condition and that research is important. I am not yet convinced that a centre of excellence is the right way to go, but it is important that we have the action group, which involves a wide range of experts, and that it gives us serious recommendations on what we should do next.

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Draft Communications Bill (UK)

To ask the First Minister whether the draft UK communications bill will have an impact on Scottish culture. (S1F-1915)

Yes. Broadcasting and telecommunications are an important part of the culture of Scotland and broadcasters have a duty to reflect and promote the diversity of our national culture.

Does the First Minister share the concerns that many people in Scotland have expressed that the draft bill poses a serious threat to regional broadcasting in Scotland because it will open the door to faceless multinational companies and allow them to take over the independent television network? Is the First Minister aware that the other devolved Administrations in the UK have made representations to the UK Government to secure a place on the board of the new regulator, the Office of Communications? Has he done the same to protect Scotland's interests? Will the First Minister ensure that the Scottish Government plays a full part in the debate on the bill and its impact on Scotland?

Yes. Not only have I made representations, I have done so twice. I have spoken to the Presiding Officer about the matter, because he has an interest in it. I have also spoken to the Secretary of State for Scotland. I intend to pursue the matter until final decisions are made.

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Local Authorities (Funding Mismatch)

I call Duncan McNeil to ask question 5.

I repeat: Duncan McNeil—question 5! [Laughter.]

I did not expect to get in at all at number 5.

To ask the First Minister what steps the Scottish Executive is taking to correct any funding mismatch in respect of six local authorities as identified by Professor Arthur Midwinter. (S1F-1907)

Those local authorities in Scotland whose funding is affected by low levels of council tax income, historic patterns in the distribution of Government grant and challenges that are related to rurality and urban deprivation have secured additional funding in recent years. Their future needs will be discussed during the spending review in 2002.

Does the First Minister accept that Professor Midwinter's report requires a response from the Executive and that a request from the affected councils for a meeting with the Minister for Finance and Public Services is reasonable? Will he assure me that that meeting will take place sooner rather than later?

The Minister for Finance and Public Services has already met most of the affected councils. I am sure that he would be happy to do so again in the course of the discussions that will take place over the next few months.

It is also important that we move on from the mistakes of the Tory years. We all said in 1995 that council reorganisation was rushed and was not properly thought through. It created situations, such as the mismatch in expenditure, that had to be rectified afterwards. Those were serious mistakes of Government policy at the time.

Over the years, the affected councils have received additional finance from Conservative Governments, Labour Governments and from the partnership Administration in Scotland to help to rectify the situation. However, there comes a time when we have to move on and base our spending plans on needs rather than on the mistakes of history.

I welcome the First Minister's commitment to meetings between the Scottish Executive and the councils concerned. Will he confirm that the Scottish Executive's position is to dispute Arthur Midwinter's position that there is a funding mismatch? Does he realise that, for councils such as Argyll and Bute Council, that means council tax of £100 above the Scottish average and an increase in local government spending of 4 per cent below the Scottish average? Is not it embarrassing that, even though a Labour-supporting academic such as Arthur Midwinter has identified the problem, the First Minister will not admit that it exists?

As Mr Hamilton knows, I have had a keen interest in the position of Argyll and Bute Council ever since I was Minister for Finance. I played a role, along with Angus MacKay, in ensuring that Argyll and Bute Council received financial compensation for some of the difficulties that it faced in the spending review just two years ago.

Mr Hamilton's comments about Professor Midwinter are shocking. He is an independent academic, who has always put—

He always agrees with the First Minister—but for once he does not.

It does not make sense for Mr Hamilton—or anybody else—to shout from the sidelines that Professor Midwinter always agrees with me, when he has just asked a question about the fact that Professor Midwinter does not agree with me. That is a particularly stupid remark from someone who has been offensive. It is wrong to question the comments of Professor Midwinter. He is an independent academic who has provided the Parliament with robust arguments that have allowed us to have decent debates in the years of devolution.

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VisitScotland

To ask the First Minister whether VisitScotland is maximising tourism opportunities. (S1F-1912)

VisitScotland seeks to market Scotland both at home and abroad, maximising the opportunities from our countryside, culture and heritage.

Given that I did not get to use the supplementary question that I had prepared for question 15 at Executive question time, I will now use it for this question, which I did not expect to be reached.

Will the First Minister welcome the completion of the Great Glen walk, which runs for 73 miles from Fort William to Inverness, and which, with the West Highland way and Speyside way, is one of Scotland's three premier walks? Would he like to join me on one of those walks? [Members: "Oh!"]

Will the First Minister look at VisitScotland's walkingwild website, which I understand now lists five members who run walking holidays, rather than listing the walks by area and degree of exertion required, which was much more helpful to visitors?

I have to say that the idea of a walk in the Highlands with Mary Scanlon is a bit more appealing than attending Miss World with Annabel Goldie. [Laughter.] It is always safer when she is not here.

I believe that, for health reasons, walking is important for both Scots and visitors from abroad and is an important part of our tourism marketing, as are the tourism opportunities in the Highlands as a whole. Indeed, Mike Watson was in Fort William this morning, launching another initiative for Highlands tourism. It is important that we support and promote walking throughout Scotland, the great opportunities that exist and the fantastic scenery of the Highlands. I would love to join Mary Scanlon in sharing one of those opportunities—if we ever find the time.

Does the First Minister agree that Glasgow's magnificent hosting of last night's champions league final has made it much more likely that we, in partnership with Ireland, will host the 2008 European football championships? Will the First Minister assure me that such large-scale projects to attract visitors to Scotland's cities will not divert support from rural tourism, which depends on more specialised niche markets such as eco-tourism?

Yes. I congratulate all those who were involved in the organisation of last night's champions league final in Glasgow. [Applause.] I congratulate not only the football authorities and national bodies that were involved—Glasgow City Council did Scotland proud last night and it deserves our congratulations.

I want to reassure Maureen Macmillan that rural tourism will continue to receive the priority that it currently receives—if not more so—from the Executive and VisitScotland and to assure her that our support for the bid from the Highlands to become European capital of culture is just as enthusiastic and energetic as our support for Euro 2008.