British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly (Autumn Plenary 2012)
The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S4M-04327, in the name of John Scott, on the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly’s autumn plenary. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.
17:05
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. It is my privilege to open this debate in my capacity as leader of the Scottish Parliament delegation to the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly.
As members may be aware, the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly—BIPA—was initially established as the British-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body. Its first meeting was held in London in 1990, when the constitution was agreed and the first plenary session was held. Originally the body consisted of 25 members of the United Kingdom Parliament and 25 members of the Irish Parliament.
In 2001, following the 1998 Good Friday agreement and the establishment of the British-Irish Council to foster further dialogue between Governments in the British isles, the membership of the body was enlarged to include representatives of the legislatures in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey, with Scotland having five members of the enlarged 68-member assembly. In 2008, the name British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly was adopted to reflect the new era of relations between Britain and Ireland, following the signing of the St Andrew’s day agreement in 2006.
Although the connections between the peoples of the British isles are clearly close and long-standing, sadly it has not always been possible to say the same of relations between their political representatives. The creation of BIPA has provided not only an arena for parliamentarians to pursue a peaceful political dialogue on issues in the north of Ireland, building on the foundations laid by the peace process, but a forum for parliamentarians from across the British isles to discuss topics of mutual concern and to promote co-operation among us all.
The recent BIPA plenary session in Glasgow was only the second occasion on which the plenary has been held in Scotland. It was a great pleasure to welcome colleagues from across the British isles and to showcase the quality of hospitality that the city of Glasgow and, indeed, Scotland offer.
The plenary session focused on the topics of the Scottish economy and Scottish-Irish relations. A wide range of speakers addressed the plenary, including Fergus Ewing, our own Minister for Energy, Enterprise and Tourism; Teresa Villiers MP, Secretary of State for Northern Ireland; Graeme Smith from the Scottish Trades Union Congress; Graham Riddell from VisitScotland; and Iain McMillan of the Confederation of British Industry Scotland.
The plenary session provided an opportunity to engage with the Irish diaspora organisations in Scotland, who also attended the dinner that was hosted by the deputy lord provost of Glasgow City Council, Gerald Leonard, and addressed by the Presiding Officer. I should say what a wonderful setting Glasgow City Chambers was for that occasion and, on behalf of the Scottish parliamentary delegation, I thank the deputy lord provost for the generous welcome and hospitality that he provided.
Looking around the chamber, I see members who have had involvement in BIPA in previous sessions of Parliament, as well as my colleagues in BIPA in the current parliamentary session, who are Willie Coffey, Alison McInnes, Michael McMahon and Mary Scanlon. Past members from all parties include Iain Smith, Bruce Crawford, Hugh Henry, Robin Harper and Murray Tosh, to name but a few. At the Glasgow plenary we were very pleased to welcome James Dornan, who is currently one of our associates.
During the debate, I look forward to hearing from colleagues about their experiences of involvement in BIPA and their views on how the assembly can develop. Although the initial impetus for the establishment of BIPA arose from the Northern Ireland peace process and encouraging dialogue between parliamentarians who previously had little contact—and little in common—my view is that BIPA has moved on from those beginnings to focus on issues that can bring tangible benefits to all our constituents, notably in the fields of transport connections, energy and economic development.
In addition to my role on the BIPA steering committee, members of the Scottish Parliament delegation are involved in three of the four BIPA committees—those dealing with European issues, economic affairs, and environmental and social affairs. Those committees have been working on a range of reports recently, including on the small and medium enterprise sector, the Irish community in Britain and human trafficking. The committees meet at different times from the plenary session, as well as during plenary sessions on occasion.
The BIPA committee reports are sent by the BIPA secretariat to the Governments that are represented on the British-Irish Council and are invaluable in providing a short and focused analysis of a particular issue. We in BIPA are increasingly looking to disseminate the findings of those committee reports to our own Parliaments and parliamentary committees to supplement the work that is carried out in all the Parliaments and Assemblies across the British Isles.
The location of the British-Irish Council offices in Edinburgh is emblematic of the key role that MSPs can play in fostering greater co-operation not only between parliamentarians across the British isles but with the British-Irish Council itself.
Following the BIPA plenary in Dublin, in May this year both the Dáil and the House of Commons held debates in their respective chambers to discuss the outcomes of the plenary session. Therefore, I am delighted that we are having this debate following the Glasgow plenary, and I look forward to future debates in the chamber following BIPA plenary sessions.
17:11
My thanks and congratulations go to our Deputy Presiding Officer, John Scott, for bringing the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly’s work to the Parliament’s attention.
The British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly was not exactly on my radar until I was asked to join it last year. The body has a diversity of political interests, and at first it seemed to me that it might be an assembly of the middle ground that offered recommendations to please everyone and achieved very little. However, nothing could be further from the truth. The members who attend the assembly are certainly not slow in representing their views, but they have shown determination to understand and find common ground with their colleagues, no matter their politics. That is quite an achievement if we consider the origins of the assembly, which was established in 1990 to help to further the peace process.
Even after only my first three plenary sessions, my view is that the assembly is doing some fantastic work, and the members and support staff who make it all possible are to be congratulated. Under the excellent leadership of Joe McHugh TD and Laurence Robertson MP, as co-chairs, business agendas are put together that certainly offer members the opportunity to engage directly on issues of importance.
In Glasgow last month, there was a very welcome opportunity to look at the Scottish economy and Irish-Scottish relations. As well as keynote contributions from the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, Theresa Villiers, and our Minister for Energy, Enterprise and Tourism, Fergus Ewing—John Scott mentioned them—there were contributions from Ailish Forde and Jane Richardson from Diageo. It would be fair to say that there was considerable interest in what the speakers had to say and, as far as I recall, all the sessions ran over time due to the number of members who wished to raise points of interest. It is clear that there is keen interest in what is happening in Scotland, not just among our Irish colleagues, but among our counterparts in the UK Parliament, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey.
Mrs Villiers stated her support for Northern Ireland being given control of corporation tax, but she was equally adamant that any further devolutionary changes in Scotland would be put on ice until the independence referendum. That certainly caused some discussion in the assembly that morning.
Mr Ewing took a number of questions from various delegates, including one from our Deputy Presiding Officer. It would be fair to say that Mr Ewing spoke with great enthusiasm about Scotland, the huge potential for renewable energy, our shared interests with Ireland and our prospects for the future.
It is interesting that we also heard from Sir William McKay on the age-old West Lothian question. If I have to be perfectly honest, I think that that flew over the heads of the majority of the delegates who attended.
BIPA is an excellent forum. It brings together people with polar-opposite political views but allows them to come together in common purpose when the opportunity comes their way.
So far, my experiences of BIPA have been first class: first, in Brighton, where we were guests of our UK Parliament hosts; and then on a memorable visit to Dublin, where the assembly was addressed by Taoiseach Enda Kenny and was later hosted by President Michael D Higgins. But where other than in Glasgow’s famous Curlers in Byres Road would it be possible to slip in unnoticed with members from the UK House of Lords, senators from Seanad Èireann, TDs from the Dáil and Sinn Féin and Ulster Unionist members from the Northern Ireland Assembly not only to spend time together but, crucially, to develop a closer understanding and to maintain friendships that are now well established? Glasgow indeed offered our colleagues a very warm welcome and left a great impression.
I very much look forward to further engagement with colleagues in the assembly. Once again, I offer my thanks to our staff in the Scottish Parliament, who work so hard to make these occasions such a success. Go raibh an t-ádh libh, agus feicfidh mé sibh i nDún na nGall—best wishes, and see you in Donegal.
17:16
I, too, congratulate John Scott on bringing the debate to the Parliament. As is the case in other jurisdictions, including at Westminster and in the Dáil, I hope that in future the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly will be not the subject of a members’ business debate—John Scott has had to use his member’s time for this—but an issue that is built into the programme of the Parliament. As the work of BIPA is becoming much more important, it should become an integral part of our debates and discussions in this Parliament.
I first became involved in BIPA when it was the British-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body, which was more commonly known as “the body”. I was an associate or substitute member at first, but I was slightly frustrated by that because, although I could participate in debates at the plenary sessions, where I could hear a vast array of speakers from a host of different jurisdictions speak on important matters, I could not follow through on the on-going work of the body’s committees. I could hear the work of the committees being reported back to the plenary session, but I was unable to engage in taking that work forward. That was a bit of a frustration, especially for anyone who had an interest in a particular subject. As a full member of BIPA, I now participate on an on-going basis in committee D, which deals with environmental and social issues.
The development of BIPA from the BIIPB is a good-news story, but I have some criticisms about my early experiences of the body. Although Willie Coffey is right that there is a social dimension to what goes on and that meeting colleagues from other jurisdictions in a social setting can be beneficial to building up good relations, I felt that initially that was the focus of the body and there was too much emphasis on that. One cannot say that now about BIPA, which is a much more substantial institution. The elected representatives who have got us to this point deserve great credit for removing that almost talking-shop attitude from the discussions and for introducing much more important, substantive and substantial issues.
However, I understand that the body, as it was, had to walk before it could run. In the initial stages in the post Anglo-Irish agreement days, many of the issues were pretty tortuous and there was a lot of trepidation—there was a lot of finessing and caressing of political issues—and things were pretty difficult. It is to the great credit of the MPs, TDs and others who were involved in those initial days that the body played such a huge role in bringing people together and helping to move forward the peace process. Having served that purpose well, BIPA can move on to discuss, in a much more constructive and substantive way, economic, social and political issues, and I think that it is starting to do that.
As someone who is now more involved in the committees, I feel that their work has become more central to the work of the plenaries and involves other members much more as we move forward. When I first became a member of committee D, it had just completed a substantive report on the Irish diaspora in Britain. Although I had criticisms of the report, it is useful. We went on to produce a short report on flooding that helped to inform all the jurisdictions. Last night, I was in Belfast, where we had the latest leg of our inquiry into human trafficking, which has been an important piece of work. In January, we will be in Edinburgh to talk about the issue again.
We must congratulate all those who are involved in BIPA, which is an important organisation. I am delighted to be a part of it and I look forward to the years ahead and to continuing to put effort into identifying areas in which we can work together across the British isles so that we benefit from one another’s knowledge.
17:20
I, too, thank my colleague John Scott for securing the debate. I join him in acknowledging the hospitality and splendour of Glasgow city chambers. I agree with Michael McMahon that, given that Westminster, Stormont and the Oireachtas have had full plenary debates on BIPA, it would be appropriate for the Scottish Parliament to do the same in future.
Like Willie Coffey, I was not too familiar with BIPA until it was mentioned by a minister in responding to a members’ business debate on Irish people living in Scotland. I was asked to speak in that debate because my mother came from Donegal and, like many others, settled in Scotland. I am proud of my Donegal roots and equally proud of my father, who was born and bred in Scotland.
I have attended three sessions of BIPA, the first of which took place in the Grand hotel in Brighton, when I was placed beside a Sinn Fein delegate for dinner. Then there was the Dublin meeting, and the meeting last month in Glasgow. I commend the work of the co-chairs Laurence Robertson, MP for Tewkesbury, and Joe McHugh, Fine Gael TD from Donegal. John Scott mentioned the development of the body to 2008. BIPA is important, because no other body brings together parliamentarians from all the Administrations in these islands and from such a variety of political backgrounds.
The address by the Taoiseach, Enda Kenny, in Dublin has been one of my highlights to date. As a previous member of the then BIIPB, he spoke from experience about the developments between our countries. He described the Queen’s visit to Ireland as “ground breaking”, “momentous and unique” and
“a turning point in British-Irish relations.”
The focus at BIPA meetings is on working together, building trust, forging relationships and developing understanding between parliamentarians from all the islands.
More than €1 billion of trade flows across the Irish Sea every week. In 2011 alone, Ireland’s exports to the UK increased by more than €600 million. Exports from Ireland to the UK are greater than Irish exports to Brazil, Russia, India and China put together. In turn, Ireland is the United Kingdom’s fifth-largest export market. As well as the greater economic benefits from working closely, in the energy sector there is much to be gained from interconnectors and shared research and development in marine energy. More is being done to share health services between the north and south of Ireland and to provide access to specialist services in the UK for people who live in Ireland.
At the meeting in Glasgow, committee C, of which I am a member, had an update on wave and tidal energy from Neil Kermode of the European Marine Energy Centre. Energy will be the focus of our next meeting, in Donegal, which will come midway through the Irish presidency of the European Union. As John Scott said, in Glasgow, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland gave an address, which was followed by a robust question session. Current and future issues were discussed, as were several issues from the past. The session was conducted in a manner respectful to all.
As Willie Coffey said, there was a debate on the West Lothian question. The debate that I found most interesting was the one that was led by Frank Feighan TD, who spoke of the decade of commemoration, which will run from 2012 to 2022 and commemorates a period that shaped the history of British-Irish relations until the present day. Between 2014 and 2018, we are likely to focus on the great war and the anniversary of Bannockburn, but 1912 to 1922 was also a unique period in Irish history, with the introduction of the third home rule bill and the signing of the Ulster covenant in 1912, the outbreak of the first world war, the Representation of the People Act 1918, which gave the franchise to women over 30, the establishment of the Irish Free State and much more.
The joint statement by Prime Minister David Cameron and the Taoiseach in March this year says it all for me:
“2012 also marks the beginning of a decade of centenary commemorations of events that helped shape our political destinies. This series of commemorations offers us an opportunity to explore and reflect on key episodes of our past. We will do so in a spirit of historical accuracy, mutual respect … and reconciliation.”
That is what BIPA is all about.
It must be better to build good relations with trusted neighbours and to work together to mutual advantage for the sake of all the people who live in Scotland, England, Wales, Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland, the Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey.
17:26
I am glad to have the opportunity to comment on the valuable work of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly and to acknowledge that Glasgow was the venue for the assembly’s 45th plenary session and that the agenda had a strong Scottish theme.
The First Minister, who is a former member of the BIIPB, wrote to welcome the assembly to Scotland and offer his best wishes for a lively and productive plenary session. My colleague Mr Ewing addressed the assembly and told me how successful the event was. Reports suggest that the sessions were lively. The speeches by Michael McMahon, Willie Coffey, John Scott and Mary Scanlon reflected that well.
I was particularly interested to see the comments of the assembly’s co-chairmen—Laurence Robertson MP and Joe McHugh TD—who said that, although the discussions on Scottish efforts to boost trade and tourism provided much food for thought for members of the other Parliaments and Assemblies in attendance, the overriding issue of the 2014 referendum on Scottish independence dominated the plenary. They added that, although the referendum debate would clearly continue to dominate public discourse in Scotland for the next two years, it was important that the assembly maintain its focus on building economic links and policies between Administrations to aid recovery and boost employment and trade.
Mary Scanlon was right to recognise the value of exports to the Irish economy in particular. She may be pleased to know that, only last month, I attended a British Irish Chamber of Commerce event as part of the promotion of such relationships.
The assembly exemplifies how we, the elected representatives of the people of these islands, can collaborate to tackle the major social and economic issues that transcend our borders, irrespective of our different political perspectives. Although it previously focused on the peace process, the fact that its members now have a greater focus on working together to build economic links between our islands is a testament to the efforts of the people of these islands, as well as groups such as BIPA.
That is not to say that the role that BIPA plays in the peace process has concluded. Indeed, I encourage members to remember the genesis of the assembly and to be sensitive to that when considering its activities and future plans. The murder on 1 November of Northern Ireland prison officer David Black served as a stark reminder that security issues will remain on the agenda for British-Irish relations for some time to come. It also demonstrates the need for vigilance and attention to the Good Friday agreement and issues that affect peace, reconciliation and progress in Northern Ireland.
The fact that representatives of the Administrations from the UK, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man attend BIPA adds much to the assembly’s work. As I know from my role representing Scotland on the British-Irish Council, we face many of the same problems. The difficulties and challenges that we have to overcome—especially in such challenging economic times—are often similar, and it is essential that we co-operate with, and learn from, one another as we seek to overcome them.
In that regard, the BIC, which is the intergovernmental body, has agreed to share information on various work streams more proactively with BIPA. By sharing our experiences, we can learn from one another. That not only helps us as parliamentarians but, more important, makes a difference for the people whom we represent. The willingness of BIPA members to encourage engagement and co-operation on matters of mutual interest and concern is of great benefit to us all. That will be even more important for an independent Scotland, as it will allow us to continue to meet and discuss common interests with our BIC and BIPA counterparts as representatives of a sovereign Scotland.
I end by expressing my thanks to all those who worked so hard to make the Glasgow plenary a success, particularly the co-chairs, Laurence Robertson MP and Joe McHugh TD. I look forward to hearing more about the next plenary in Donegal, which I understand will discuss a joint energy strategy for Britain and Ireland—an issue on which the British-Irish Council has spent much time, and one to which it has paid much attention. It is another issue that is of great interest to Scotland and one on which we have much to contribute. In terms of co-operation, it is probably one of the areas in which we can have the most dynamic intervention.
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
I was about to end my speech, but I will take an intervention.
Issues have been raised regarding working towards a closer relationship between BIPA and the British-Irish Council. Can the cabinet secretary confirm how the British-Irish Council will give its input on future discussions, particularly on energy, which is an area on which we can work together to our mutual advantage?
Mary Scanlon will be interested to know that, at the BIC summit in Dublin last January, which I attended, the council charged the new BIC standing secretariat—which, as John Scott mentioned, is now located in Edinburgh—with engaging with the BIPA secretariat to discuss the implementation of those areas for improvement on which the BIC and BIPA are agreed. They were set out in the letter that the BIC secretariat sent to the BIPA secretariat following the 2010 summit in Guernsey. I understand that that work is continuing.
On the work streams, extensive work has been carried out between the different jurisdictions on energy in particular. It is a recurring theme at the British-Irish Council, and the willingness to engage is clear from the seeking of a response from the BIPA secretariat as to how that information can be shared. However, I endorse the view that there can be no suggestion that BIPA should be seen to hold the BIC to account. That is the role of the legislatures from which the member Administrations are drawn; it is not the role of BIPA.
In relation to some of the agenda items, such as human trafficking, which Michael McMahon mentioned and on which the Scottish Parliament has been strongly involved in legislating, and particularly energy, we are starting to see the progression of the relationships, be it through BIPA or the BIC. Discussion of the substantive issues can help us proceed in the decades to come, for example in relation to renewable energy and social justice. Experiences vary—we are not saying that they are all the same—and the solutions will not necessarily be the same, but we can exchange ideas, for example on youth employment.
I have already seen a testing of our approaches, which can be informed by the approaches of our closest neighbours. That is the type of relationship that we want to foster. The role of individual parliamentarians in BIPA, whether they are from this Parliament or others, is really important, because we have to test ourselves, just as the parliamentarians in the Scottish Parliament have to test the Government on what it does. If we are better informed because we know about other examples of what is happening, it can help us to produce better policy solutions. That is important, because it is ultimately the people whom we serve—the people whom we have the opportunity and the privilege to represent in the Parliament—who must be at the forefront of our thinking.
I hope that that explains some of the relationships. I am happy to engage with members on the subject in the years to come.
Meeting closed at 17:34.