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Chamber and committees

European Committee, 29 Jan 2002

Meeting date: Tuesday, January 29, 2002


Contents


EC/EU Legislation (Implementation and Scrutiny)

The Convener (Irene Oldfather):

Colleagues, I open the meeting. I understand that last time we started two minutes early—I hope that today we are starting bang on 2 o'clock. I have received apologies from Nora Radcliffe and Helen Eadie.

The first item on the agenda is discussion of a paper that sets out the details of our agreement last week on the committee's two main roles in relation to the implementation of European Community legislation in Scotland. The paper is pretty self-explanatory and takes account of the discussions that we have had. Do members have any further comments?

Ben Wallace (North-East Scotland) (Con):

I have a query about the role of the committee, based on my previous experience as a member of the Health and Community Care Committee. When legislation born out of an European directive arrived at the Health and Community Care Committee, it did not come with the relevant directive. I do not know what the situation is with the Subordinate Legislation Committee, one of whose tasks is to scrutinise such legislation. Subject committees were not able to compare whether Scottish statutory instruments were in accordance with directives. Their response to statutory instruments was based purely on the instruments themselves.

Should it be our role to determine whether legislation is compatible with the directives on which it is based? It is important that we consider not only the time scales for implementation, but how directives are implemented. I know that there are thousands of directives, and I am not asking that we scrutinise every one of them, but when dealing with legislation that has an impact on many people's lives, we should compare statutory instruments with the relevant directives.

I will provide the committee with an example, although I am not asking the committee to look into it. The Government's consultation on nitrate zones comes in response to a directive that we were very slow to implement, which led to our being fined by the European Court of Justice. However, a comparison between the directive and the Government's consultation paper reveals that there is a difference between how the European Union expects us to assess our nitrate zones and how the Scottish Environment Protection Agency has carried out that assessment. It is important that we get to question the officials from quangos about why they decided to ratchet up directives that have an impact on people. Almost half of the north-east will be a nitrate zone, but the testing required by Europe is far too detailed to produce such a map of assessment. According to the EU directive, there has to be a test site every mile and a half.

The Convener:

What we say in the paper does not necessarily preclude our examining how directives are implemented. I would like us to liaise rather better with the subject committees. If they are in agreement and we are not duplicating work that another committee in the Parliament intends to do, I see no reason why we should not investigate why something has occurred in a certain way, instead of just considering cases of late implementation. I have no problem with that and it seemed to be what was suggested in last week's discussion. Are other committee members happy with that?

Sarah Boyack (Edinburgh Central) (Lab):

Ben Wallace has made a reasonable point. It is within the spirit of the paper for us to examine where directives are applied differently in Scotland or whether they could or should be applied differently in Scotland. We need to set up a mechanism with the subject committees that would allow the process to be triggered.

Ben Wallace:

Can the clerks check whether a facility for committees to compare subordinate legislation with the relevant EU directives already exists? Some committees may be doing that, whereas others may not. We may need only to tweak the mechanism to ensure that subject committees receive copies of directives. If they have a problem, they can refer the matter to us.

The Convener:

Paragraph 8 of the paper suggests that we proceed "on a case-by-case basis". In principle it would be fine for us to do what Ben Wallace suggests and to link up with the subject committees. In the meantime, the clerks can investigate the extent to which such scrutiny already takes place and where the gaps in the system are. The paper allows for us to examine how directives are implemented. Ben Wallace is right to say that, if we are to learn lessons from where things are going wrong, we should have an analysis of situations, rather than just figures.

Dennis Canavan (Falkirk West):

Paragraph 5 of the paper refers to the Subordinate Legislation Committee's role in the scrutiny of documents, including Scottish statutory instruments that implement European legislation. The paper also refers to reports by the Subordinate Legislation Committee to the Parliament. In cases of non-implementation or late implementation of European legislation, does the committee report to the Parliament or just to the European Committee?

The Convener:

Members will recall a discussion that we had with the Executive about six months ago, as a result of which we now receive a list with information on the implementation of directives. Once the new scrutiny process is formalised, it will be our role to work through that list and to identify any areas that we want to develop. Stephen Imrie can update us on that.

Stephen Imrie (Clerk):

One member of the committee, Colin Campbell, is also a member of the Subordinate Legislation Committee. The Subordinate Legislation Committee reports to the whole Parliament and publishes a committee report that is available to all members, in the same way as our reports are. On at least one occasion in the past, the Subordinate Legislation Committee has drawn the European Committee's attention to a problem with implementation.

Colin Campbell (West of Scotland) (SNP):

It is all about legal implementation and the speed thereof. The content and principle of the legislation are not the business of the Subordinate Legislation Committee. We note an instrument and would pass it on to the European Committee if there were something conspicuously wrong with it legally.

Does that answer Dennis Canavan's question?

Dennis Canavan:

Partly, but I do not recall any instance of the Subordinate Legislation Committee reporting to us about the non-implementation or late implementation of European legislation. I thought that our committee would have a role not only in noting non-implementation or late implementation, but in recommending to the Executive that it should pull its socks up and get on with it.

The Convener:

I have been advised that the Subordinate Legislation Committee has written to the convener of this committee before. We are saying that there has been a vacuum and that now we want to ensure that we take up anything that is relevant to our remit. Anything that is passed to us now will fall within our new remit.

For clarification, the convener, Hugh Henry, was informed and he decided whether we should discuss the matter during the sift.

The Convener:

The clerk is trying to recall how the process operated. Perhaps we could look into what happened when issues were raised with us before. We assure members that procedures are now in place to deal with information that comes from the Subordinate Legislation Committee or any other committee that feels that we have a role because of our new remit in relation to the scrutiny of implementation.

I will ask the clerks to make the necessary arrangements to begin our work in this area. We have agreed the principles. It is important that we put in place procedures to review the type and frequency of information that we receive from the Executive and the other committees. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.