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Chamber and committees

Finance Committee, 24 Mar 2009

Meeting date: Tuesday, March 24, 2009


Contents


Hybrid Bills

The Convener:

Item 5 is consideration of correspondence from the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee. Members will see from the clerk's paper that that committee is considering the procedures that should apply to scrutiny of public bills that affect private interests, which are known as hybrid bills. The Finance Committee has been asked for its views, and the paper concentrates on issues that are of particular relevance to our role. I refer members to paragraph 10 and I invite comments on the information on the financial cost of a hybrid bill that should be required by standing orders.

Linda Fabiani:

The issue is important. We are developing a new template for the Parliament, which will be used again and again. Most of the issues that are set out in annex A to the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee's letter are directly relevant to the Finance Committee. I am quite concerned that we have been asked to respond within a week. Most of the issues require discussion and we might also need to hear from someone from the procedures side of the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee or from the private bills unit. We should be wary of rushing decisions on parliamentary procedure that will stand for years to come.

Derek Brownlee:

I do not disagree with what Linda Fabiani said about the importance of getting it right, although we could amend the standing orders if details emerged that demonstrated that we had not quite got things right.

It strikes me as ridiculous that we might ask for less detail on a bill on the new Forth crossing than would be the case for a project of such a scale for which the hybrid bill procedure was not being used. The suggestion that a hybrid bill should be treated as a Government bill but should be accompanied by the additional information on the business case that we would normally expect to receive for a private bill is sensible.

If there is uncertainty, we should err on the side of getting more information. The scrutiny of financial projections prior to the granting of authorisation not just for the new Forth crossing but for all major projects that fall into the hybrid bill category will be fundamental to our ability to keep projects on track financially, which is essential, regardless of the Government's financial position, and is even more essential in the current climate.

Is the general feeling in the committee that we should seek more information? The clerks can produce a paper.

Members indicated agreement.

Hybrid bills caused me enormous problems from 1974 to 1979 in Westminster. I see that they have not changed.

You are an expert, then.

The Convener:

Only in the sense that I understand the problems.

I refer members to the discussion in paragraphs 11 to 13 of the clerk's paper. Do members wish to make any comment on the type of committee that should consider a hybrid bill or on any restrictions on the membership of such a committee? If the Finance Committee were to scrutinise the financial implications of a hybrid bill, should any membership restrictions apply to the Finance Committee?

We cannot consider any of those issues in isolation. We should have time to scrutinise all the issues.

So you want a paper with more information and further consideration of the issues.

Linda Fabiani:

I would like a session to talk through the issues, as there are many questions. For example, other bits of legislation, such as planning legislation, will impinge on the new Forth road crossing. If a decision is made on one issue at the moment, that might impinge on other issues further down the line. We should consider the matter as a whole.

I understand your concerns and agree that we need to be careful. Perhaps the clerk can give us some advice.

Mark Brough (Clerk):

The Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee is at the beginning of its inquiry. If members felt that they had questions that required answers, rather than drawing conclusions now, it would be perfectly appropriate to raise those questions. We can put them to that committee and expect it to explore them in its inquiry.

Jeremy Purvis:

I agree entirely with Linda Fabiani. I have been on two private bill committees, and my experience may be relevant. The members of those committees received legal advice with regards to prejudice and issues that impinged on other areas. The remit of the Finance Committee, which is a statutory committee of the Parliament under the Scotland Act 1998, is much wider than that of a private bill committee. If we are to consider hybrid bills, issues with regards to the areas that members represent or our interests might impinge on that. Therefore, legal advice is required before we form a view. I am open to having as much scrutiny as possible but, having been on two private bill committees, I am aware that there are sensible strictures with regard to activity in such committees. That draws us into territory on which I am not qualified to comment at this stage.

The committee is urging caution and requests more information before we come to a conclusion.

As we agreed earlier under item 1, we now move into private to discuss our work programme.

Meeting continued in private until 16:04.