Justice Committee,

Meeting date: Tuesday, May 19, 2009

Official Report 449KB pdf

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Subordinate Legislation

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Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003 (Designation of Participating Countries) (Scotland) (No 2) Order 2009 (Draft)

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I ask everyone to ensure that mobile phones are switched off. There are no apologies, although one member has intimated that she will be late. I welcome Dr Richard Simpson MSP.

It is very pleasant for the committee to be here in Alloa. This is the first time that the committee has been in this location, and we are very appreciative of the services that have been provided to us by the appropriate authorities.

The first item on the agenda is consideration of an affirmative instrument, the draft Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003 (Designation of Participating Countries) (Scotland) (No 2) Order 2009. I draw members' attention to the instrument and to the cover note. The Subordinate Legislation Committee did not draw any matter to the attention of the committee.

Prior to the formal procedure under the next agenda item, this is an opportunity for members to ask questions of the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and his officials. I welcome the cabinet secretary, Kenny MacAskill MSP, who is joined by Gerard Bonnar, head of the summary justice reform branch in the Scottish Government's criminal procedure division, and Stephen Crilly, principal legal officer in the Scottish Government's legal directorate.

I invite the cabinet secretary to make a short opening statement.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the committee's consideration of the draft order, and hope that these explanatory comments are of some assistance.

The Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003 provides statutory powers under which the United Kingdom can both seek and provide various forms of mutual legal assistance concerning criminal matters. Some of those statutory powers can be exercised only where the state in question is a "participating country", as defined in section 51(2) of the 2003 act. The draft order designates Norway, Iceland and Switzerland as participating countries in relation to certain sections of the 2003 act, as a consequence of agreements that the European Union has concluded.

On 6 May, the Home Office laid before the Westminster Parliament a draft order that makes a similar designation in relation to the provisions that apply in England and Wales.

I invite the committee to recommend that the draft order be approved by Parliament.

Do members have any questions at this stage?

No.

We move to item 2, which is formal consideration of the motion to recommend approval of the instrument. I invite the cabinet secretary to move motion S3M-4035.

Motion moved,

That the Justice Committee recommends that the draft Crime (International Co-operation) Act 2003 (Designation of Participating Countries) (Scotland) (No. 2) Order 2009 (SSI 2009/draft) be approved.—[Kenny MacAskill.]

Motion agreed to.

I suspend the meeting briefly to allow the witnesses to change over.

Meeting suspended.

On resuming—

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Scottish Public Services Ombudsman Act 2002 (Amendment) Order 2009 (Draft)

Item 3 is consideration of another affirmative instrument. I draw members' attention to the instrument and the cover note. The Subordinate Legislation Committee did not draw any matter to the attention of the committee. Prior to the formal procedure under the next agenda item, members have an opportunity to ask questions of the cabinet secretary and his officials. The officials are Felicity Cullen and Ben Haynes, who are policy advisers from the courts and administrative justice division in the Scottish Government's constitution, law and courts directorate.

The draft order implements a consequential change resulting from the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. Under that act of the Westminster Parliament, most tribunals in England and Wales, as well as many that are UK-wide, have been abolished. Their functions have been transferred to the new first-tier tribunal and upper tribunal.

One of the bodies that has been abolished is the Criminal Injuries Compensation Appeals Panel. The CICAP was abolished in November 2008 and its functions were transferred to the first-tier tribunal. The CICAP is listed in schedule 2 to the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman Act 2002. The schedule lists those who are liable to investigation by the ombudsman. As the CICAP has now been abolished, it needs to be removed from the schedule. Its staff, who are part of the UK Tribunals Service, now come within the jurisdiction of the UK parliamentary and health service ombudsman.

The 2002 act gives Her Majesty the Queen the power to amend the relevant part of schedule 2 by an order in the Privy Council. Under the act, the Parliament must approve a draft order before it can be sent to the Privy Council for its consideration. That is why I will move the motion later. I make it clear that, although the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 is an act of the Westminster Parliament and implements a policy of the Westminster Government, because the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman comes within the competence of the Scottish Parliament it falls to this Parliament to consider the draft order.

That is definitely clear. Do members have any questions?

Forgive me—I do not want to extend this item, as we have more important things to talk about. However, if the body no longer exists, why do we have to remove it from the list? Its presence on the list could produce no activity, so why do we need the bit of paper?

It is a matter of administrative tidying up. There is a need to get rid of things in laws that are in desuetude. You are correct to say that the reference could probably lie there for ever and a day; however, for clarity, we should get rid of it if we can.

I am curious as to the background to this. I understand that the criminal injuries compensation scheme and the relevant tribunals come under the jurisdiction of the UK Government. That is all very straightforward. However, I cannot understand why the body that is being abolished came under the jurisdiction of the SPSO in the first place. The SPSO is a Scottish Parliament appointment relating, I assume, to Scottish bodies that are within the Scottish Parliament's jurisdiction.

That is a valid point. I do not know the answer to that, but I can make some inquiries. Both matters preceded our arrival in government and, in the case of CICAP, the establishment of the Scottish Parliament. I am happy to make those inquiries, but I assume that the CICAP was placed under the jurisdiction of the SPSO on the basis that the SPSO is capable of dealing with a variety of matters. As Mr Brown knows, tribunals are complex. Some are entirely reserved, others are wholly devolved and many are hybrid.

The legislation is fairly benign, in any event. I do not think that there are any problems with the proposal. Are there any further questions?

No.

We move to item 4, which is formal consideration of the motion. I invite the cabinet secretary to move motion S3M-3962.

Motion moved,

That the Justice Committee recommends that the draft Scottish Public Services Ombudsman Act 2002 (Amendment) Order 2009 (SSI 2009/draft) be approved.—[Kenny MacAskill.]

Motion agreed to.

I suspend the meeting briefly in order that the witnesses can change over. Thank you, Mr MacAskill.

Meeting suspended.

On resuming—