Justice 1 Committee, 18 Feb 2003

Meeting date: Tuesday, February 18, 2003

Official Report 254KB pdf

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Petition

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Children (Scotland) Act 1995 (PE124)

The committee has seen this petition a few times. I refer members to the paper J1/03/4/9, which sets out the background to the petition and related correspondence on the rights of grandparents. As members are no doubt aware, there will not be time in this session to consider the petition again. Any decisions that we make will have to be passed on to our successor committee or committees via our legacy paper.

A few options are open to us. We could write to the Scottish Child Law Centre and the Scottish Children's Reporters Administration to ask for further information on recent cases in the European Court of Human Rights involving grandparents and the right to privacy in family life as highlighted by the British Association of Social Workers and pass any information received on to our successor committee. Alternatively—or also—we could suggest via our legacy paper that our successor committee might wish to monitor the minister's investigation of family mediation for grandparents and the wider family. We could also choose to write to the petitioners and forward all recent correspondence regarding the petition explaining that the committee has examined the petition thoroughly and that all organisations and individuals involved with the issues of grandparents' rights to children are content that current legislation is sufficient.

There is a lot to be said for the first two options. The situations that the petition is concerned with can be desperately difficult and sensitive. In some situations, grandparents may be being treated unreasonably while in others they may be acting unreasonably. It is difficult to bind a court because a court needs to know all the facts and circumstances. It would be enormously valuable if we were able to give moral support to any mediation processes, which have been steadily developed over the years.

I support what Lord James has said. If we take the steps that are outlined in the first two options, it would provide some information for our successor committee, which would probably save time when the petition is considered at a later date.

We should continue to pursue this petition or encourage other people to do so. The essay that was sent by a social worker along with a report was helpful. The BASW submission talked about the need to be flexible and to encourage the kind of work that it talks about. If we can encourage all those involved to take more account of the issues and can also get more information on the European Court of Human Rights aspect, that would help our successor committee to push the matter further forward.

I agree with what the other members have said, but I also think that we should state our view that, in such matters, the welfare of the child is paramount. We should not think of the rights of the extended family if they conflict with the welfare of the child.

I support the first two options and Maureen Macmillan's point that we must consider the welfare and the views of the child.

It would be helpful if we could find out whether any studies have been done on the impact on children of not having access to their grandparents. I do not think that we have seen any detailed evidence in that regard. It might be said that that impact would speak for itself, but we need to clarify the situation if we are to decide what action should be taken in relation to the arrangements that exist or legal steps that might be taken. That will be an issue for the new committee, of course.

I concur with the first two options that are before us. In my experience as a former matrimonial and family law practitioner, the child's welfare was always at the centre. Where somebody may on paper have had some right of access, it was never given if it was not in the child's interest.

However, the petition may have highlighted the fact that grandparents were sometimes not on the agenda, although, like Lord James Douglas-Hamilton, I have known cases in which the grandparents were a hindrance to resolving matters. On the other hand, there were cases in which grandparents were helpful. One size does not fit all.

The petition has been valuable in reminding those who deal in such matters that grandparents have an important role, particularly in today's society, in which grandparents often look after children while their parents are out working. That role may require further investigation.

Is the committee content that the first two issues should be dealt with, subject to Paul Martin's additional suggestion that we also consider any available academic studies of how grandparents' involvement has affected children?

Members indicated agreement.

That will go into our legacy paper for the new committee. If I recall correctly, the minister—if he continues to be the minister after the election—was going to proceed with a family law bill. However, we will have a new Administration and will have to see what its agenda is. [Interruption.]

I am told that our next witnesses are here. I suspend the meeting for five minutes so that we have an opportunity to study the papers before I call the next witnesses.

Meeting suspended.

On resuming—