Barlinnie Prison (Visit)
The second item on our agenda concerns the visit to Barlinnie, which certain members undertook. Would any of the members involved who are present like to comment on the visit?
When we got there, we were split up. Each of us went with an inspector to different parts of the prison. The inspectors were targeting particular areas of the prison to see whether there had been any improvements since their last visit. Michael Crossan, the inspector I was with, was interested in the fabric of the prison and in the state of the laundry.
The laundry building was in a poor condition and was fairly dirty. It was difficult and dangerous to clean because of the machinery. The machinery was also giving trouble. Ironing presses were broken and three other machines were being returned because the officer in charge of the laundry felt that they posed a safety risk because of their emission of steam. That meant that the ironing was going to be out-sourced. They also had problems with out-sourcing the laundry work to Shotts. There was a continuing argument about the right clothes and sheets not coming back and the laundry work not being done to a satisfactory standard.
The laundry was under a lot of pressure. It had reached its target of changing kit every day and bedding once a week, but it had been put under pressure because of the young remands having come in. That put extra pressure on the system as they needed football kit, physical education kit and so on to be cleaned.
I also visited A halI in the morning. Concerns have been expressed in previous inspections about its induction process. It is advertised as a three-day induction exercise. However, the officer who was in charge of it said that prisoners arrived on a Monday afternoon; they watched, as he said "the video", got a talk and filled in forms on Tuesday; and on Wednesday they were moved on, so the induction actually covered only one day. Concern was expressed that prisoners do not take it in, possibly because they are still under the influence of drugs or alcohol. It was also very busy in A hall and a lot was going on. There were different categories of prisoners and lots of shouting. The room used for the induction was formerly a cell. It is very cramped. Soon, the induction will take place in better accommodation.
Shouting by whom?
People were shouting orders. Prison officers were shouting to their colleagues who were up in the gallery. It is noisy, and echoes. People were coming and going. Some prisoners were coming in from court and others were going to exercise.
People who came in on remand did not know how to get a visit. It must be booked in advance. People who had been in prison before knew the ropes, but people who were coming in for the first time often had a problem getting their act together because they had to be proactive. They found that they were not able to get a visit from their family for two or three days.
The prisoners were disparaging about the induction. Some prison officers were unhappy doing the inductions because they felt that they had not been trained to do them, while other officers complained that others were not pulling their weight as they left inductions to a few officers, who also had to carry out their general duties. There is a lot of unhappiness among the staff about the matter; there may be a training issue.
The governor said that part of the problem is that the prison had received a lot of extra staff from other prisons. There had been surplus staff, so they had targeted certain aspects of work, but now the number of staff is dropping they are all having to do more. Some staff object to that.
In the afternoon, I saw where the young remands are accommodated. I had been at Longriggend so I wanted to see whether conditions for them had been improved. They had. They had been moved from Letham hall because they had trashed it one night. They had been moved to D hall, where the accommodation conditions were better because they had internal sanitation. I cannot believe that Letham hall was built five years ago with no internal sanitation—that is ridiculous.
D hall is divided into four, so it is different from the large, echoing, Victorian hall. That works very well. The complaint from the officers was that they cannot get the young remands out to do any exercise or take any recreation because they all have televisions in their rooms. However, later in the day I went to the education unit. It appeared that the young remands were going for education, which is of course voluntary. There were 64 young remands and about 35 classroom places were being taken up, although it could be that some people were going to more than one session.
The fabric of A hall is in fairly poor condition. We were shown an empty cell with stripped down beds. The pillows and mattresses were stained and filthy. The governor said that there is no shortage of money for replacing things like that; each hall has its own budget. The officer who showed us the cells said that there is not much point in renewing the bedding. I felt that there is low morale in the prison—nobody can be bothered to do anything. That is partly because—
When they said that there is not much point in renewing the bedding, was that just because it would get dirty again?
I think so. The attitude was, "What's the point? It won't stay clean for long." It was filthy—the governor went to see it for himself after I had spoken to him. D hall shows that those old halls can be transformed. The way it was divided meant that the prisoners were in smaller groups. They could relate to each other and there was less aggravation between them.
In Letham hall, Lyndsay McIntosh and I spoke to the people in charge of the sex offenders. They have what seems to be a good rehabilitation programme going, based on the one that has been successful in Peterhead, which houses the long-stay sex offenders. What came over was that there is a big decision to be made about the future of Barlinnie—will it be refurbished or rebuilt? There is low morale in the prison because of the uncertainty.
I cannot remember the names of the halls, so perhaps Maureen Macmillan will help me. On the plus side, things seem to have changed in the mental health nurse unit in the past few years. Previously, prison officers were trained to deal with mental health issues but now the unit has mental health nurses, which seems to have improved the quality of life for prisoners.
Food is important in the prison. There is a new chef, who has been there about three months. The matter was mentioned in the early report by Clive Fairweather. It is such a big place that when food arrived at the halls it was cold. There is now a better system for shifting it so that it remains hot. It is rather like being in hospital: prisoners get a menu the day before, and two or three different dishes are made. There is a new regime at the weekend, with hot pies and soup. The men liked that, because they could eat and watch matches on television. Food is important for morale in the prison. The chef put out a questionnaire to the prisoners to find out how they were getting on with the selections. They get curries now—they did not get them before. The changes seem small, but they are important.
On the bad side, there is not enough work for the men. As there is only enough work for half the day, they do it in shifts. Some work in the morning and others work in the afternoon, but they have nothing to do for the rest of the day. Something especially bad is the main remand hall. The move between the main remand hall and the one where the young offenders are—which has been refurbished for £5 million—is like going from darkness to light. We went into a cell in the main remand hall. It is absolutely spartan. It is no Butlin's holiday camp there.
The walls are spartan and there are two plain beds so close together you could put your hand out and touch the man next to you. There is a small screen and then there is the potty. The prisoners are locked in from around 9.15 at night until 6.15 in the morning. Then there is the slopping out.
When we went, round about 11 in the morning, the place had been sluiced with disinfectant, but we could still smell the urine. The cells must be horrendous in the middle of the night—and we are talking about remand prisoners, not convicted prisoners. I understand that around 60 per cent of them end up not being convicted, and they are in the worst conditions. They have only four urinals. When I visited, I asked how many prisoners there were. Obviously, the number fluctuates, but at that time there were around 200 men.
We then visited the hall where the young offenders from Longriggend had been put. Letham hall had been trashed, but they went into a remand unit that had had £5 million spent on it. Some were sharing, but most had single cells. They had a television and a toilet in their cells—but if they did not keep their cells clean, they were sent back to the other remand hall with the Victorian conditions. That onus was on them, but the hall that they were in had a completely different atmosphere from the others—for example, they had pictures on the walls.
I would say to members of the committee that it is really important to go and see the remand conditions at Barlinnie. I would go as far as to say that those people are living in prisoner-of-war conditions—and, as I say, 60 per cent of them are found not guilty. It is really outrageous—and comparing the conditions they live in with the conditions in the hall on which £5 million has been spent is like comparing chalk and cheese.
I had seen Barlinnie before, and although the conditions in the remand hall and the short-term prisoner accommodation are poor, they are better than they were last time I went. However, the slopping out is still foul and the loos are disgraceful. There is not enough room and there are not enough showers. The showers are horrible: you would have to be absolutely desperate before you took a shower. Many prisoners feel that way. What with the slopping out, queueing for phones and queueing for showers, some of them will choose not to have a shower until it is absolutely necessary.
I appreciated the difference in the accommodation for the young remand prisoners—it is far better. As has been said, there can be difficulties getting prisoners out of their cells to go on programmes or to go to recreation. They can be quite picky about going out in cold weather: if it is cold, wet and rainy, Richard and Judy on television are far more appealing than going out. Most of the cells that I saw had modesty boards.
The person who I was accompanying—Theresa—was especially interested in the anti-bullying programmes. Round the jail, there is plenty of stuff about the "no danger, no violence" programmes, but there was not a lot of talk about them.
I was surprised that the heating was so effective. Last time I was there it was freezing and I would have been terrified at the prospect of spending any time there. I was impressed by the ingenuity of the prisoners, who would take toilet blocks, heat them with lighters and slap them up on the doors so that they could improve the eau de Barlinnie.
I was also interested in the new kits that the governor went to great lengths to show us as soon as we arrived. Prisoners get a kit that contains the loo, a jug and an air freshener that is supposed to change colour. They go in green and they come out blue—I saw a lot of blue ones.
In the afternoon, I had a look at the health centre. I did not get beyond speaking to the officer in charge. We spoke about the methadone programme. Some people refuse to go on the programme when they arrive: they think that they will be able to manage by getting heroin and all the rest of it. However, when they have been found out by the mandatory drug testing, they end up opting for the programme. The number of prisoners on the methadone programme varies between 30 and 40.
I was interested in the programmes that are run for the prisoners. Christine Grahame mentioned that there is work for only half of them for half of the time. The other options are visits, if prisoners can get their visitors to come at the right time, and the programmes on adult literacy and other skills that are organised by prison officers.
In the afternoon, I was particularly interested to see the visitor centre—it is the facility for prison visitors rather than a tourist attraction. I remember seeing the centre before refurbishment, and can say that the difference between the centre then and now is like night and day. The accommodation for people on open visits is not bad at all. The accommodation for those on closed visits is vastly improved. The area in which folk such as Gordon Jackson can visit their clients is luxurious—it is gorgeous.
It is too good for the workers.
Gordon Jackson gave up at the wrong time, as the accommodation is wonderful.
We also looked at the staff facility, which is most attractive. The only difficulty is that the equipment there is not quite to the standard of the equipment that the prisoners have in their gymnasium, which we visited to make a comparison. Many of the staff use the prisoners' facilities for gym and recreation.
I have noticed quite a few differences and improvements since I saw the prison in my previous career. However, the slopping out is still abysmal.
You were there with HM inspectorate. Although we cannot comment on the views of the inspectorate, can you tell us anything about how the inspection was conducted?
The advantage of visiting with the inspectorate was that I was with someone who had keys and so did not have to be taken around by a member of the Barlinnie staff. A professional who has been in the service knows where all the flaws are likely to be hidden—it is like accompanying a member of a schools inspection team.
Although we had occasions for a quick chat with prisoners, when the experienced prison officers who were with us had opportunities to speak to prisoners, they formed impressions that were quite different from ours. We were quite taken with the visitor centre, but the professionals were told by the pass holders that, although the centre was magnificent, the attitude of the staff was sometimes lacking. Prison staff use a Hoover-type thing to test whether people have been in contact with drugs. Sometimes the number of people whom they catch—and who those people are—is embarrassing. I do not suggest that those people are drug dealers, as sometimes they are aged parents—although that is not to say that aged parents might not be involved in the supply of illicit drugs into the prison. Many prisoners commented to the professionals about the attitude of prison officers. I was surprised by that.
Clive Fairweather has been doing his job now for six years and knows what he is looking for. The main purpose of the visit was to see the slopping out. I cannot emphasise that enough, convener—you would have to see it to understand. When one sees it, one dismisses all thought that the prisoners have an easy life and that slopping out is proper—it is disgraceful.
As an addendum to that, for exercise, the men have to walk up and down in the hall liked caged animals—it is like a scene from "Porridge"—because there is nowhere to exercise. The committee must get the Executive to do something quick smart about slopping out.
The slopping out was dreadful.
I agree with everything that has been said about conditions, particularly for remand prisoners. I know from the feedback that we received from prisoners in the afternoon that remand prisoners resent those conditions. They especially resented the fact that female officers were present when they slopped out—they found that very embarrassing. I thought that the inspection was thorough and that the inspectors were very relaxed. They were in no way intimidating and the staff seemed willing to discuss their concerns with them.
It was noticeable that, even with failings in the system, the inspection team understood the difficulties that staff were up against. If there were staff shortages, the inspectors were aware of what would go by the wayside—recreation or some specific programme might be a casualty. The staff knew how to prioritise and to ensure that all the legal stuff was obeyed.
Obviously, one of the main purposes of the visit was to enable members of the committee to familiarise themselves with the conditions. Is there anything else that members feel we should do immediately?
Having seen the prison, we would add our voice to the calls for something to be done about slopping out. It is a huge issue.
We should write to the Executive with our concerns about the state of the prison and ask for a quick decision. One of the halls—B hall, I think—is ready for refurbishment, so the programme of refurbishment is under way. We do not know how far it will go or whether the programme will end with that hall. We need more of an idea of what is planned for the future.
The estates review—the capital programme for the prisons—seems to be the problem. It was supposed to be delivered in June but we are near the end of the year and still do not know when it will be completed. There may be rumours that Barlinnie will close, but the poor conditions remain. The committee should write a letter in the strongest terms about the conditions in the remand hall that we visited.
Would it be appropriate for the three members who went on the visit to draft a letter? The committee could then approve it as a committee letter.
I see that Alison Taylor, the senior assistant clerk, is nodding—so we can do that.
Can one member take the lead by convening, as it were, that group of three?
If you are content, convener, I will draft a letter and e-mail it to the others who went on the inspection. We will then ensure that the committee is content with the terminology used.
Could you send us a copy of the draft as well, Christine?
I might just do that, Alasdair.
I suspect that you should if you want the letter to see the light of day. I ask you to return with it at a subsequent meeting. Please let us know in advance which meeting that will be.
Should we produce the letter together and put out a draft in time for the next meeting?
I suggest that you converse with your colleagues, get some ideas on paper and send them to the clerk. Once we have agreed a suitable draft, it can be sent out with the committee papers. Please let us know the deadline that you are working towards.
I will do it over the next few days, while the visit is fresh in my mind and while I am still angry enough.
I thank the members for that report. At the start, Maureen Macmillan mentioned the equipment in the laundry. She expressed concern about danger and working conditions. Is the Health and Safety Executive involved? Do prisons fall under the same conditions as external workplaces? Should we be concerned about that?
I do not know.
I do not think that they do.
I thought that the Scottish Prison Service estates had Crown immunity.
I would have thought that, irrespective of whether machinery and equipment is in a prison or a workplace, the rules should be the same. We can perhaps make that point.
The committee can find out, or you could lodge a question about it, Phil.
I just think that we should find out; I thought that it was a valid point.
We will find out what the definitive position is.