Education and Culture Committee

Meeting date: Tuesday, March 5, 2013

Official Report 445KB pdf

---

Subordinate Legislation

---

Children’s Hearings (Scotland) Act 2011 (Transfer of Children to Scotland—Effect of Orders made in England and Wales or Northern Ireland) Regulations 2013 [Draft]

Good morning, folks. I welcome everyone to the seventh meeting in 2013 of the Education and Culture Committee. I remind people, including those in the public gallery, to switch off all electronic devices, as they can interfere with the broadcasting system. I welcome Marco Biagi, who is here as a substitute for our convener, Stewart Maxwell, whom I understand is in Iceland—the country, not the frozen-food store.

Agenda item 1 is to take evidence from the Minister for Children and Young People on the draft Children’s Hearings (Scotland) Act 2011 (Transfer of Children to Scotland—Effect of Orders made in England and Wales or Northern Ireland) Regulations 2013. The item is an opportunity for members to ask any technical questions or to seek clarification on the regulations. Do members have any technical questions or any points of clarification that they want to ask about? [Interruption.] Sorry, I am new to this job, and I have been reminded that the minister might like to make an opening statement first.

Good morning, committee. I am joined by Kit Wyeth and Gordon McNicoll. I welcome the opportunity to introduce the draft regulations, which are made under section 190 of the Children’s Hearings (Scotland) Act 2011. The regulations are the first of a number of Scottish statutory instruments that will come before the committee between now and June 2013, when the 2011 act will come into force.

The draft regulations will ensure that children moving to Scotland who are already subject to a care, supervision or education order made in England, Wales or Northern Ireland will continue to have compulsory supervision and meaningful local support from the date of their arrival in Scotland. The regulations will largely replicate the current arrangements for children moving to Scotland that are set out in the Children (Reciprocal Enforcement of Prescribed Orders etc (England and Wales and Northern Ireland)) (Scotland) Regulations 1996. The 1996 regulations, which have largely been overtaken in the intervening years, will be repealed in June.

Under the draft regulations, a non-Scottish order will terminate and be converted to a compulsory supervision order under the 2011 act on the date of transfer. What is new in the draft regulations is an early review of the terms of the United Kingdom order, with a hearing taking place within 20 working days of the child’s move to Scotland. That will ensure that appropriate support and supervision that is relevant to the needs of the child continues. For example, the UK order might include conditions, such as attendance at a particular school or support service, that are no longer relevant, given that the child is now living in Scotland.

The new regulations deal with the movement of children to Scotland. To ensure that all Scottish children who move get the care and support that they need, we have agreed with our UK Government counterparts to include the necessary measures in an order under section 104 of the Scotland Act 1998. That order will shortly be laid before the UK Parliament to ensure that the appropriate protections are in place from June.

In summary, the regulations largely replicate current practice, update terminology and listed orders and strengthen the process by introducing the 20-working-day review hearing. The regulations will ensure a smooth transition, with minimal disruption and change for children and families.

Thank you, minister, and welcome to the meeting. I also welcome the Scottish Government officials Kit Wyeth, from the children’s hearings team, and Gordon McNicoll, the deputy director of the communities and education division. Do members have any questions?

The minister mentioned that for children who move from Scotland to the rest of the UK there will be subordinate legislation at Westminster for the arrangements to be reciprocated. Will that subordinate legislation be synchronised with the regulations that are before us? When is that likely to happen? [Interruption.]

Oops—sorry for knocking over my glass. That was not a distraction tactic.

The section 104 order will shortly be laid before the Westminster Parliament and will come into force at the same time as the regulations—we need it for the go-live date in June. The instruments are being sequenced to ensure that we have as smooth a transition as possible and that children who go to England and Wales or other parts of the UK are protected.

Where a child in England who has been using private providers of support services comes to Scotland and seeks state provision, will that be covered under the regulations?

As I said in my opening remarks, some of those services might no longer be appropriate. It will be the responsibility of the new home local authority to provide protection and other measures for the child. Those matters will be taken into account in the review that will take place within 20 days, which is new to the regulations.

Would that be the case even if the child had not been using local authority provision in England because their parents had paid for private provision?

Some kind of balance would need to be reached, but the review hearing within 20 working days would be able to take on board some of those issues. However, some things in the UK order might not be accessible in the new place where the child is living. The 20-day hearing, which is new to the regulations, will take on board some of the issues that might arise and will allow the new home authority to make appropriate provision.

What I am driving at is whether there will be an obligation on the local authority in Scotland to make available provision that was not previously state provided south of the border.

The 20-day hearing review will be able to look at the needs of the child to ensure that the best and appropriate measures are taken to ensure that the wellbeing of the child is paramount. Of course, the driving force of the children’s hearings service is to ensure that the best needs of the child are met. The 20-day hearing will allow the transition to be seamless and smooth.

I have a question about the consultation. The policy note mentions:

“A total of 5 responses were received to that consultation and the instrument was re-drafted, as appropriate, to take account of comments made.”

Out of interest, it would be helpful to know what those areas of concern were.

I think that some minor technical amendments were made. Nothing substantive came out of that, but the consultation was a useful process. Some technical minor details were changed.

If there are no other questions from members, I invite the minister to move motion S4M-05714.

Motion moved,

That the Education and Culture Committee recommends that the Children’s Hearings (Scotland) Act 2011 (Transfer of Children to Scotland – Effect of Orders made in England and Wales or Northern Ireland) Regulations 2013 [draft] be approved.—[Aileen Campbell.]

Motion agreed to.

I will suspend the meeting for a minute or so.

10:07 Meeting suspended.

10:08 On resuming—