Subordinate Legislation Committee, 04 Feb 2003

Meeting date: Tuesday, February 4, 2003

Official Report 98KB pdf

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Delegated Powers Scrutiny

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Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

The first item on the agenda is the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Bill, which is Mike Russell's member's bill. Mike Russell is unable to attend due to a previous engagement outside the city, but he has furnished us with a comprehensive reply to the couple of points that we raised last week. We have another week to consider the bill, but I recommend that we write to him now to say what we think would be better practice in terms of subordinate legislation under the bill.

The first comment concerns section 1, which obliges public bodies to prepare Gaelic language plans. Mike Russell proposes that orders made under section 1(7) would follow the negative procedure, but we would prefer them to follow the affirmative procedure. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

The second comment concerns the use of commencement orders, which is an issue that touches on the policy of the bill. The bill will come into effect in, if you like, the Gaelic-speaking areas right away but would be extended to other parts of Scotland by order. Mike Russell suggests that that should be done through a staged commencement order. However, that is an unusual way of using a commencement order and is not one that the committee would recommend. I suggest that we recommend that the bill be drafted so that it provides for an instrument that would be exercisable by the ministers under the negative procedure.

Agreed.

Is that all right with Gordon Jackson?

Yes.

Thank you. We shall do that.

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Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill: as amended at Stage 2

The Criminal Justice (Scotland) Bill, as amended at stage 2, makes a number of amendments to the Scottish criminal justice system and contains several powers to make subordinate legislation, which the committee considered at stage 1. As some of those powers have been substantially changed or removed and new powers have been inserted at stage 2, the bill has come before the committee again for consideration of the changes. The Executive has provided an updated memorandum and has indicated that it intends to make further changes to the delegated powers at stage 3.

As this committee and the Justice 2 Committee recommended, an amendment was made at stage 2 to section 69, which provides that the powers conferred on the Scottish ministers to make orders or regulations will be exercised by statutory instrument. The effect of the amendment is to provide that the order-making powers in sections 6(1)(b), 14(1), 14(12), 15(6), 15(5) and 36(5), as well as orders under section 65 that amend or repeal primary legislation, will be subject to affirmative resolution.

That is good.

Yes, that is fine.

Section 44, which provided for a youth pilot study, has been dropped from the bill. We will simply note that.

Under section 56(7), which deals with the review of certain decisions on registration and criminal record certificates, a new power has been introduced that enables Scottish ministers to make regulations under section 124A in part V of the Police Act 1997. The exercise of the power will be by statutory instrument subject to negative resolution. As in similar circumstances in the past, we think that that level of scrutiny is adequate. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

There is perhaps a bit of overkill on the next issue. The Executive proposes to amend the bill at stage 3 by removing the order-making power that is contained in section 15(1). Section 15(1) gives victims of certain crimes the right to receive information about their assailant's release from prison. That is an important issue, where the legislation touches folks' lives.

Under section 15(1), the Scottish ministers would have to prescribe through subordinate legislation the way in which information would be submitted by a victim. The Executive considers that the power to prescribe the means by which victims intimate their wish to receive information is unnecessary; ministers would not want to prescribe the medium, as that seems overly bureaucratic. The suggested amendment seems to be an improvement. Are members agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

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Building (Scotland) Bill: as amended at Stage 2

Discussion of the Building (Scotland) Bill, as amended at stage 2, caused great joy at the committee's briefing. Colin Campbell spoke for four minutes about the bill and seems to know all about it. We look to be guided by him.

Thank you. In some measure, the Building (Scotland) Bill emanates from Europe. It proposes different methods of overseeing design and the proper application of and adherence to building rules and regulations. Certified people will overlook design and verifiers will ensure that building regulations are kept to.

That was well said, sir.

The Executive has drafted its memorandum in a slightly different way from normal, but we are advised that that is a useful development and has been of particular assistance in analysing the various changes that have been made to the powers. Some people might say that, but I still found the memorandum quite challenging.

Section 1 of the bill contains the principal power to make building regulations and is at the heart of the bill. There is provision for consultation before the regulations are made, which is sensible. Section 1(2), as now amended by the Executive, expands the circumstances in which the Scottish ministers must consult the Building Standards Advisory Committee and representative interests, which is fine. They must now do so before making an order to modify paragraph 5(2) of schedule 1, which provides an illustrative list of matters for which building regulations may make provision. The amendment was made in response to a recommendation by the committee.

Bill Butler has just arrived. Good morning, Bill. Did you get fed up with the Health and Community Care Committee?

One can never get tired of health matters.

That is good. You have arrived in time for discussion of the Building (Scotland) Bill, which will probably drive you back to discussing mental health at the Health and Community Care Committee—it will seem a haven of sanity.

Schedule 1 to the bill concerns specified matters for which building regulations can be made.

The committee does not need to go into the matter too much, does it?

No. An amendment to improve access for disabled people was lodged, which is fine.

Section 2(4) of the bill concerns continuing requirements, which is where the verifiers that Colin Campbell has spoken about come in. Section 2(1) provides that building regulations may impose continuing requirements on owners of buildings to ensure that the purposes of any designated provision of the regulations are not frustrated. That is fine, but the power conferred on ministers seems to have been greatly widened. However, Colin Campbell has assured us that the power is in line with the European regulations—ministers want to take the power in case they have to make adjustments as adjustments are made in Europe. Are members content with that?

Members indicated agreement.

Section 3(2) concerns the relaxation of building regulations. We were concerned about the section and drew it to the attention of ministers, who have added new subsection (2A).

We thank them for that.

Section 6 concerns building standards assessments. The section, which provided for a local authority to carry out a building standards assessment, has been expanded. It now provides that, where the assessment examines the extent to which the building complies with building regulations, the regulations that apply are those that apply to the building at the time of the assessment—that is, not any previous regulations that were valid when building work was carried out. That is definitely an improvement. Are members agreed?

Members indicated agreement.