Rural Affairs Committee, 02 Nov 1999

Meeting date: Tuesday, November 2, 1999

Official Report 293KB pdf

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Lobsters and Crawfish (Prohibition of Fishing and Landing) (Scotland) Order 1999 (SSI 1999/88)

We have copies of this order together with explanatory notes, and Mr Martin Ritchie from the Executive is here to explain the terminology if need be.

Mr Feeley could give a brief statement on this rather technical issue, if that would be useful.

Before we ask the gentleman concerned to proceed, I should say that the committee simply seeks an explanation of the background of and technical issues involved in the instrument. We do not require any great detail, just that we understand what it is that we are about to pass.

As Martin Ritchie has been involved in instructing solicitors on this order, he will be in a better position to address any technical issues.

The purpose of the order is to support v-notching schemes that are carried out by the fishing industry and other interests. V-notching involves the clipping of a v-shaped notch on to the tail of a mature shellfish. The creature is then returned to the sea to continue the breeding process. It is most common for mature females that are berried—that is, carrying young—to be v-notched and returned to the sea.

That is b-e-r-r-i-e-d.

Yes. The shellfish are not wearing French hats.

A proposed scheme that we understand will start in the Western Isles in spring or early summer next year will be Scotland's first v-notching scheme. Demand from Western Isles fishermen to have the order in place to support their voluntary scheme provided much of the impetus for taking this order ahead of other associated technical conservation orders. An order has been brought forward for Scotland and there are two other orders, one for English and Irish waters and the other for Welsh waters.

The Scottish order will make it an offence for any British boat to land a v-notched lobster or crawfish in Scotland, which will support any v-notching schemes being run. The order also prohibits fishing for v-notched creatures by Scottish boats anywhere and by other British boats within the Scottish zone. In recognition of the fact that fishermen will occasionally catch v-notched creatures quite unintentionally, the order enables fishermen to avoid committing an offence if they simply return the lobster or crawfish to the sea.

The order itself is relatively straightforward.

You said that the order is tied up with initiatives from Western Isles fishermen. Has there been consultation with fishermen elsewhere and have other representations been received? If so, have any changes been made to the order as a result?

We discussed the issue at some length in the fisheries conservation group, which is a UK group involving the fisheries departments from Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales and fishermen and fishermen's representatives from all four countries. The issue received a lengthy airing in that forum.

You mentioned fishermen's representatives and that reminded me of something that Mr Morrison said about the membership of the Scottish Fishermen's Federation. He said that that organisation tends to deal with the larger boats. How many lobster fishermen are represented?

The fisheries conservation group is relatively wide ranging. For example, associations that are members of SFF are represented as well as those that are not, including those from the Western Isles.

Where are the lobsters going to be v-notched? How are fishermen to be paid for v-notched lobsters? How are the lobsters to be returned to the place in which they were caught?

The lobster is notched on the tail. Martin Ritchie has a diagram—

When I said "where", I meant where will the lobsters be landed.

They will be taken on board the vessel—

Yes, but where will they be v-notched?

They will be v-notched on the vessel using a special implement and immediately returned to the sea.

I thought that they had to be taken to shore to be v-notched and tagged.

They are v-notched on the vessel and returned immediately to the sea.

So how do the fishermen get compensated? I thought that they were getting £8 a lobster.

They keep the notch extract.

And they get paid on the notch extract? Is that how it happens?

The compensation element of the Western Isles proposal is not covered by the order. All that the order does is to make it an offence to land a v-notched lobster. I do not have chapter and verse on how those administering the Western Isles scheme will manage the process, but good luck to them.

How much is the compensation for each lobster and what is the estimated cost of the scheme?

The rate for the Western Isles scheme will be about £8 per lobster. That is roughly the market price, but it will vary depending on the time of year.

It will be based on market prices.

That is right.

How many lobsters do you hope to v-notch?

The Western Isles scheme proposes to v-notch about 10,000 in the first two years.

People have asked how much consultation there has been with various fishing bodies about the order. I understand that there has been extensive consultation over several years and that there is a general acceptance among the fishing fraternity that the compensation is less important than the conservation of the stock. There has been consultation with fishing colleagues in Ireland and on the east coast of the United States and Canada, and there is general support for the conservation measure in all those fishing communities and among our own fishermen.

I have noticed an anomaly in the part of the order that deals with where an offence is committed. Paragraph 5 (1)(a) states that a sea fishery officer may exercise powers

"anywhere in relation to any Scottish fishing boat".

That is fine, but paragraph 5 (1)(b) goes on to say

"in any waters adjacent to the United Kingdom and within the Scottish zone in relation to any relevant British fishing boat."

What happens if the boat is not a British-registered fishing boat?

We are covered by article 17 of council regulation (EC) 894/97. However, this is a national measure that can be applied to UK vessels only. We cannot apply it, under those terms, to foreign vessels.

It is important to take the point that foreign vessels would not be fishing within our six-mile limit, which is where the lobster fishery is. We can safely take foreign vessels out of the calculation.

Some deep-water lobster fishing may take place outwith the six-mile limit, but the bulk of such fishing will be within that zone. However, as Martin says, this is a national measure that cannot be applied to foreign vessels.

In that case, should we not include all fishing vessels that have the notch-tailed lobsters aboard, and accept that that is committing an offence?

That would go beyond the scope of a national measure.

We envisage that such schemes would be operated within the six-mile limit. Foreigners would not be fishing there.

I ask Mr Ritchie to speak to the paper that we have received, unless we have covered everything that he was going to talk about in the previous questioning period.

I prepared the paper to lead us into the discussion, but we have covered most of the issues that we wanted to raise.

Therefore, the committee must decide whether it is content with the proposal. If it is content with the proposal, there is no need to make any recommendations in our report to the Parliament. Is the committee content?

Members indicated agreement.

Thank you very much, gentlemen.