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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
  7. Current session: 14 May 2026 to 22 September 2026
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Displaying 19 contributions

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Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Murdo Fraser

I understand that you might not have a detailed plan with numbers on some proposed NHS reforms, but the proposal to reduce the number of health boards from 14 to two is quite specific. I would have assumed that, before announcing the proposal, the Government would have done some modelling to work out where it wanted to get to.

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Murdo Fraser

On the savings, every health board will have a chief executive, possibly a deputy chief executive, director of finance, director of human resources, medical director and director of public health. The Government has a no compulsory redundancy policy. What will happen to all those people?

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Murdo Fraser

What will happen to all those people who are currently employed in very significant, high-level roles in the public sector, with very high salaries?

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Murdo Fraser

It sounds like you came up with this idea on the back of a fag packet and you have not done any work to back it up. There is no modelling and no detail and there are no targets for savings by department.

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Murdo Fraser

Oh, right—I apologise. You must have a number in mind for the NHS.

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Murdo Fraser

Well, I wish you well with it.

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Murdo Fraser

I am trying to unpick everything that you have said. My question was quite specific. What modelling was done prior to the announcement? I take it from what you have said that the answer is, “Not very much.”

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Murdo Fraser

Good morning, cabinet secretary. It is clear that public service reform is about two outcomes: improving outcomes for the public through better-quality services, and saving money. The committee issued a call for evidence to which we had a large response from many external stakeholders, and it is clear that many people see the priority as being improving public services. We also heard a lot of that last week in the evidence that we took from Stephen Boyd of the IPPR. Nevertheless, this is still against a very challenging fiscal backdrop for the Scottish Government, so there are two outcomes to try to balance. What I would like to understand from you today is how the Government sees the balance. I do not necessarily expect you to put numbers on that, although it would be helpful if you did. Again, how do you see the balance between the two challenges of improving the quality of services and meeting the fiscal challenge?

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Murdo Fraser

I will press you a little bit for some detail, because we are now nine days on from the programme for government announcement, and there is a lot of interest in what public service reform might mean in practice. You might have seen that your former ministerial colleague Michael Matheson said the other day that the reduction in the number of health boards from 14 to two is “fool’s gold”. I am not sure who he was suggesting the fool was in this particular circumstance. How do you persuade him—or anybody else who has an interest in this—that there will be better outcomes and savings to be made from what will be done, assuming that the reduction in the number of health boards is about delivering savings? Prior to the programme for government announcement, did the Government have modelling done on what will be achieved?

Public Service Reform Committee [Draft]

Delivering Public Service Reform

Meeting date: 10 September 2026

Murdo Fraser

That is a very interesting answer. You said that the scale of the opportunity in the NHS runs to the billions of pounds—