Skip to main content

Language: English / Gàidhlig

Loading…
Chamber and committees

Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Tuesday, June 23, 2015


Contents


Topical Question Time


New Women’s Prison

To ask the Scottish Government whether the new women’s prison will comply with the recommendations of the commission on women offenders. (S4T-01079)

The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson)

The plans for the future custodial estate for women that I announced yesterday will deliver a bold new approach to how women in custody are looked after in Scotland, and they are consistent with the recommendations of the commission on women offenders.

The commission recommended that Cornton Vale should be replaced by a small specialist prison; that there should be an holistic approach to the management of women in custody to address their underlying needs; that most women should be held in local prisons as close to their communities as possible; and that women should be encouraged to take responsibility for themselves and learn basic life skills to equip themselves for life beyond custody.

We will build a new small national prison and five community-based custodial units, which will provide an estate where the level of security is proportionate to the level of risk that a woman poses and an estate that allows women in custody to be located as close as possible to their communities. All the custodial facilities will be managed by the Scottish Prison Service in partnership with multidisciplinary teams to create a trauma-informed and recovery-focused ethos that responds to the specific needs of women and encourages them to take responsibility for rebuilding their lives.

Alison McInnes

I very much welcome the cabinet secretary’s thoughtful intervention on the matter. There is no doubt that yesterday’s announcement is an improvement on what was planned previously, and I thank the cabinet secretary for it.

The cabinet secretary will remember that one of the recommendations of the commission on women offenders was a separate unit for young women. Will there be a specialist youth unit? Also, what does the Scottish Government plan to do in tandem with the new institutions to help those young women who are caught in the criminal justice system?

Michael Matheson

The member raises an interesting point. In considering the matter, we established an independent advisory group, which assisted us in considering the different options and moving towards a new model of custodial facilities for women in Scotland. Alongside that, we drew on expertise both from Scotland and internationally in determining how we should approach the matter. One thing that came through strongly was that young women should not be separated into an individual unit and that, instead, they should be part of the adult custodial facilities in general. That view was strongly put to the Scottish Government.

There was clearly a divergence between the view in the commission’s report and that of the experts and the advisory group, which involved a range of different stakeholders, on the approach that we should take. We are taking an approach that is based on the views that the advisory group, the wider stakeholders in Scotland and the experts have put to us. That is not to say that the ethos and the way in which younger women are dealt with in the establishments will not be different from the way in which adult prisoners are dealt with. We have listened to views on the matter, and there was a divergence of views. Given the strength of feeling from those, both internationally and domestically, who have considered the issue, we have taken an approach under which younger women will be part of the integrated approach for dealing with women offenders in Scotland.

Alison McInnes

I thank the cabinet secretary for his comments on the matter. It is something that we will perhaps reflect on and return to.

The commission also highlighted the importance of family support for female offenders, particularly when they are mothers. Will there be a separate mother-and-baby unit and family-friendly visitor centres with outdoor play facilities?

Michael Matheson

The Scottish Prison Service has made significant progress in recent years in family visiting provision, particularly for those women who have young children. When the international group that supported our work on the prison estate visited Cornton Vale, it made particular reference to the facility that we now have there.

Under the new model, when a woman is placed in the custodial estate, she will undergo a multidisciplinary assessment to identify the best place for her to be placed in order to meet her needs. For example, if there are specific childcare and family issues that would lead the multidisciplinary assessment to determine that a woman would be better placed in a community-based facility closer to her home environment, that decision will be made at that point. We therefore want to take a much more holistic approach to how we deal with women when they present to the custodial estate in order to ensure that they are placed in the most appropriate environment for meeting their needs, including their family needs. The community-based units will be for around 20 women at any given time. Part of what they do will be about maintaining and supporting family links, including where women have children.

It is also important to recognise that in the community facilities it will be for the women to continue to undertake domestic responsibilities, such as cooking and cleaning for themselves, rather than those responsibilities being taken over for them once they come into the custodial estate. The reason why we are taking that approach and why that will be part of the ethos in those establishments, alongside maintaining community links and being involved in different community programmes, is that the evidence shows that that is the most effective way in which to re-establish women in the community after they leave the custodial estate and to equip them with sustainable skills that can help to prevent them from committing offences in the future.

We are taking an holistic approach to the issue that is very much about looking at how we can ensure that we are meeting the needs of not only the women but their families, because there is an important need to make sure that they are maintained and supported.

Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)

I join the 218 centre, Soroptimist International, the Howard League Scotland, Sacro, Turning Point Scotland, Families Outside, many women’s groups and, of course, the redoubtable Dr Marsha Scott from women for indy in welcoming this measure. The cabinet secretary referred to dealing with underlying needs in a multidisciplinary approach. I am sure that he will understand that a lot of the women in the prison estate have suffered from mental health issues and addictions. Can he give us some specific examples of the type of support that will be on offer to allow those women to change their behaviours so that they can break the offending cycle?

Michael Matheson

As I mentioned, we listened to a lot of different views before we came to a final decision on the future shape of our female custodial estate. A number of the organisations to which the member referred have fed into that process and been engaged in advising the Government on the matter.

I will give an illustration of how we envisage the community custodial units operating. We are developing that model and working it up with the Scottish Prison Service and third sector organisations. A multidisciplinary team will be based in the units. Although they will come under the strategic management of the SPS, a range of different organisations will work in partnership with the SPS in the units to meet the needs of the women there. For example, Turning Point could provide particular support and assistance to women in the establishments, or a mental health organisation could do so. However, we will also have our community mental health delivery programmes working in partnership with the community units.

We want to achieve a link between the custodial units and the community so that, when an individual woman moves back into the community, the services are not rewritten and re-established but, instead, those who were engaged in working with the woman while she was in the custodial estate continue to do so. If that is about dealing with mental health issues and addiction issues, the individuals who will be working with the woman in the community should be the same individuals and support groups who were working with her in the custodial estate.

I will finish on this point: I have heard time and again—too often—the debate around justice issues being polarised on the basis of whether we are being either soft on crime or tough on crime. I think that we need to be smart on this issue. It is not about falling into the false dichotomy between being soft or tough; it is about looking at where the evidence shows us is the best way to move forward. The evidence shows that, if we want to tackle female offending effectively, we need to deal with the underlying causes that drive that offending behaviour. The new model that I set out yesterday will assist us in taking that forward much more comprehensively and effectively. I believe that, in that way, we can take a much more progressive approach to how we deal with female offenders in Scotland.

Annabel Goldie (West Scotland) (Con)

In the light of the cabinet secretary’s announcement, what reassurance can he give to MSPs and the public that there will be sufficient capacity to house women offenders for whom a custodial sentence is necessary and justified?

Michael Matheson

In what I outlined yesterday, much of the focus was on the future shape of the female custodial estate, but I also outlined our determination to take forward a range of measures that can act as diversions and community disposals that are much more effective in dealing with offending behaviour.

As we move towards 2020, a decommissioning plan will be put in place, which will look at how we decommission the existing estate for female offenders as we develop the new estate. As Elish Angiolini’s report correctly highlighted, we need to do that in such a way that we are careful to ensure that we have sufficient capacity to meet the needs of any women who are referred to the custodial estate.

We believe that having the right balance between the custodial estate that we will eventually shape through what I announced yesterday and alternatives and diversionary programmes will help to reduce the demand for custodial places in Scotland. As we take that forward, we will look at the decommissioning of the existing facilities. We need to make sure that we do that in a balanced and proportionate way. We will adopt such an approach over the coming years, and I am confident that we can get the balance right. Given that we have the second-highest female prison population of any northern European country, it is very clear that we have not got that balance right now. We need to take bold measures that will assist us in getting that balance right, and I believe that what I outlined yesterday will assist us in getting to that point.


Scottish Water (Pollution in North Lanarkshire)

To ask the Scottish Government what discussions it has had with Scottish Water regarding the pollution issues reported across North Lanarkshire. (S4T-01081)

The Minister for Transport and Islands (Derek Mackay)

Scottish Water and the Scottish Government were in regular contact throughout the incident, and our drinking water quality team, the resilience team and the water industry team were all involved. Communication continues as we seek to establish the root cause of the incident, and the drinking water quality regulator for Scotland will undertake a full investigation, as is the case with all water quality incidents.

John Wilson

As the minister is aware, 6,000 properties across Newarthill, New Stevenston, Dalziel Park, Chapelhall and Carfin were affected last Thursday, with Carfin not getting the all-clear until Friday. When can we expect the report on how the incident was caused? How detailed will that report be?

Derek Mackay

I do not have a timescale to hand, but I am happy to establish when that report will be concluded and to convey that back to the member and any other member who is interested. The drinking water quality regulator will carry out an investigation and will conclude that report. There will be an expectation that any necessary action that is recommended will be taken.

I assure the member that intensive work to establish the cause of the contamination continues, that all necessary action will be taken and that all relevant powers are ready to be used, should they be required. I assure him that quick action was taken and that a full report will be produced. I will return to him on the timescale for that report, but it is very important that we establish the cause so that we can act on the lessons learned.

John Wilson

I put on record my appreciation for the reaction of staff and others in getting water supplies to the communities concerned. However, given the level of disruption and inconvenience caused to the local population, especially the vulnerable and those with young children, what provisions is Scottish Water taking to ensure that such an incident does not happen again? How can it ensure that it gets back the full confidence of the population of the area as far as their water supplies are concerned?

Derek Mackay

Water quality is, of course, of the highest importance. As soon as there was any concern, all the relevant actions were taken. I can inform the chamber that I was in Scottish Water’s national control centre just this morning, when I asked questions about the incident. When there is any evidence of contamination or a breach, it is acted on very quickly, and that happened in this case. We will be able to take further action once we have learned what caused the contamination. That is why an intensive investigation is under way to establish the cause. That will inform us as to what further actions are necessary. We will, of course, take any action that is required.

 

There was a quick response to the local communities by Scottish Water, including producing information, raising awareness and communicating with people, and taking a very specific approach to the more vulnerable in our community. The key issue now is to identify the cause and minimise the risk that it happens again.