British Transport Police
To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to consult on its proposal for the future of the British Transport Police. (S4T-00969)
The Scottish Government has been consistent in its view on integrating the British Transport Police in Scotland with Police Scotland, and that view has been made public since before police reform. My predecessor wrote to the United Kingdom minister for transport in 2011 and again in December 2013, submitting a business case for integration.
The Scottish Government will continue to engage with all key stakeholders, including the British Transport Police, the British Transport Police Authority, the British Transport Police Federation, the rail industry, the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers and Police Scotland, to ensure that our railways continue to enjoy excellent policing. That engagement will continue throughout 2015 as we work closely with stakeholders on proposals to shape the integration of the function of the BTP in Scotland with Police Scotland. The good work of BTP officers and staff in Scotland is valued by the Scottish Government and the people of Scotland, and protecting and maintaining their specialist skills and knowledge will be a priority.
I may be mistaken, but I think that the cabinet secretary missed out his willingness to talk to the Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen, which has also commented. I hoped that it would be included.
The cabinet secretary and the Scottish Government are trying to pull a fast one. There was an agreement in the Smith commission to devolve the powers of the British Transport Police to the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament, but there was no mention in that agreement of the abolition of the British Transport Police. The cabinet secretary may say that the Government is consistent in its views, but that does not absolve it of the need to properly consult. Again, will he take the opportunity to put on the record the willingness to consult meaningfully with all those who are involved before any final decision on structures is taken?
On the member’s first point, I am more than happy to engage with ASLEF and any other stakeholder that has an interest in the particular issue.
I find the member’s position on the matter bizarre. As a Government, we set out our position on the integration of the British Transport Police in Scotland with Police Scotland back in 2011, and we have been consistent in that position. In fact, it was also in our white paper last year as the Scottish Government’s preferred policy on this issue. We have engaged on the matter with stakeholders over that time not just in the justice portfolio but in the transport portfolio in the Scottish Government.
It should be recognised that all parties agreed to the Smith commission’s recommendations, including the devolving of the functions of policing on Scotland’s railways, which are currently carried out by the British Transport Police. We are saying that we wish to do that within the policing framework that we have in Scotland to create the appropriate accountability and line of authority in dealing with the matter, and we will consult stakeholders on how that will be achieved. Over the course of the year, stakeholders will be fully engaged in that process, which is an opportunity for them to make their views known on how it can be taken forward and how best we can ensure that we both maintain and protect the very specialist function that British Transport Police officers have. That is what we will do over the coming months and for the rest of this year before we come to a final decision on what the system will be like within the Police Scotland framework.
The cabinet secretary said that no one should be surprised because the proposals were included in the Government’s white paper. As I recall, that white paper was rejected by the majority of people in Scotland, so he cannot use that as a justification.
I hope that I heard that there is a willingness by the Scottish Government to consult. I hope that the cabinet secretary will confirm that there is and that the Scottish Government will properly consult on structures, powers, cross-border legislation, funding and retaining the very discrete identity of the British Transport Police within Police Scotland. No one in the Labour Party disagrees with the transfer and devolving of powers to hold the British Transport Police responsible to the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament. That is not the issue; the issue is how we do that, how the functions, skills and expertise of the British Transport Police are protected and, critically, how funding and legislative issues relating to cross-border jurisdiction are addressed. Will the cabinet secretary confirm that all those issues will be fully consulted on and addressed before any final decision is taken?
If the member recognises that the topic was in our white paper, he must have been aware of our policy position on the matter.
Hugh Henry’s party has signed up to the Smith commission. It has accepted the commission’s recommendation that the policing of our railways should be devolved to the Scottish Government. We are progressing that policy within the Police Scotland framework of a single national force operating in Scotland.
If the member had listened to my first answer, he would have heard me say that we will engage and consult stakeholders on how to do that, so that we protect and maintain the specialist function that is carried out by British Transport Police officers. It is in the interests of the Scottish Government and everyone else to ensure that our railways are effectively policed so, over the course of the year, we will consult stakeholders on how that can be achieved within our policing framework.
To what extent in any consultation will value for money in running a transport police service feature?
Resourcing will be an important part of our consideration. It is worth keeping in mind that the British Transport Police in Scotland is currently funded through Network Rail and the main train operator, ScotRail. It is, through various means, subsidised in effect by the Scottish Government, which largely pays for British transport policing in Scotland.
It may be helpful for the member to be aware that, in 2013-14, the costs met by Network Rail in Scotland and First ScotRail were around £19 million. The British Transport Police budget for Scotland was £12.5 million. That figure excludes the cost of functions that are centralised to the British Transport Police Authority.
The Government, including me and my colleague Derek Mackay, is keen to work with the rail industry, to ensure that we have a clear understanding of the funding mechanisms and the arrangements that will be put in place as we move forward.
What, if any, discussion or consultation took place with Network Rail and the train operators, such as Virgin Trains and Stagecoach, prior to the announcement of the proposal to integrate the British Transport Police in Scotland with Police Scotland? Will he guarantee that the current British Transport Police officers will not be deployed to general policing duties under the new proposals?
I return to my original answer. In 2011, we set out our position that British transport policing in Scotland should be integrated into the police structure at that time, which was before the police reforms that have since taken place in Scotland. Back in 2013, we also put a business case to the member’s United Kingdom Government colleague stating why transport policing should be part of Police Scotland. We have, therefore, engaged stakeholders on the matter over the course of several years. Our approach has not been a secret.
Devolution has been agreed and the UK Government has submitted draft clauses that set out how the function is to be devolved to the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament. We are going to engage on how that can best be achieved in the policing structure in Scotland. All stakeholders, whether they be rail operators, unions or other specialist organisations that have an interest in the matter, will have an opportunity to engage with us and be consulted on how we can best achieve the two things that are most important: maintaining and protecting the specialist function that our British Transport Police officers provide.
The cabinet secretary is right to say that it has long been the Government’s view to devolve transport policing, although some of us might think that it arrived at that view without sufficient dialogue with the British Transport Police and the unions. In his defence, the cabinet secretary has said that there have been four years of discussions since the decision was taken. Will he give details on those discussions? How often have stakeholders been met? What concerns were raised and how have they been addressed?
It is worth keeping it in mind that a range of organisations opposed the idea that the functions should be devolved in the first place. A number of organisations were not satisfied with the recommendations that were arrived at by the Smith commission, which the member’s party and other parties signed up to. I recognise that there is a long-standing objection to the idea that the functions should be devolved.
Over the years, my predecessor engaged with a number of stakeholders, including the rail operators and other interested parties, on these matters. My officials have been engaged in dialogue with the British Transport Police in London, with the British Transport Police Authority and with the British Transport Police Federation in recent months.
I can assure the member that, as has always been the case, we are going to engage with stakeholders on how we can best achieve this move forward to integration in Scotland in a way that allows us to protect and maintain specialist functions. If the member is keen to be assured about our commitment to ensuring that that engagement will be undertaken, she can have that assurance here today. I will ensure that those stakeholders that have a view on how things should be shaped within the policing structure that we now have in Scotland will have an opportunity to express it over the coming weeks and months.
Severe and Extreme Poverty
To ask the Scottish Government how it is tackling severe and extreme poverty in Scotland. (S4T-00976)
Yesterday we published the “Severe Poverty in Scotland” report, which showed that, in 2012-13, 510,000 people were classed as living in households in severe or extreme poverty. That figure is a disgrace. It is an unfortunate, inevitable result of the United Kingdom Government’s failed austerity agenda and welfare cuts, which are slashing incomes for some of our poorest households.
With employment increasing and unemployment down, Scotland is outperforming the rest of the UK, yet the statistics show that a job is no longer any guarantee against severe or extreme poverty. That is why we oppose cutting in-work tax credits, and it is why the Scottish Government and its agencies are paying the living wage, encouraging other employers to follow suit.
We have put tackling poverty and inequality at the heart of Government, through policies such as the council tax freeze, free prescriptions and expanding childcare provision. Further, we are mitigating the worst of the welfare cuts by replacing income lost through the bedroom tax or council tax benefit cuts. That action is making a real difference, and we will continue to make the argument for a fairer welfare system.
Last week, the Welfare Reform Committee heard from Professor Fothergill of Sheffield Hallam University. He told members that in-work households can expect to lose around £730 million a year as a result of welfare cuts. How have such shocking figures on poverty been influenced by cuts to benefits for people who are in work?
There is no doubt that welfare reform has impacted on the incomes of the poorest households in Scotland. Poorer households in work have relied on tax credits and other benefits to boost their incomes over recent years. However, as the severe poverty report has pointed out, changes to benefits and tax credits in 2012-13 served to reduce household incomes for some poorer households in work, including families with children. It is also worth noting that additional welfare reform changes that have been introduced more recently were not factored into the severe poverty report and have not yet been factored into Scotland’s annual poverty statistics.
I concur with the cabinet secretary that the UK Government’s decision to freeze work allowances will cut the incomes of those who are in work and who are working hard to get out of poverty. Will he join me in calling on the Chancellor of the Exchequer to significantly increase the work allowance in this week’s budget?
We certainly will. As the First Minister outlined in a speech in London yesterday, the analysis that was published by the Scottish Government on Monday showed that more than half of all children and more than 40 per cent of working-age adults in severe poverty in Scotland live in households where at least one person is in work.
The UK Government’s policy of freezing work allowances in effect cuts the benefits of workers on low incomes. That is why the First Minister called on the UK Government yesterday to announce a significant increase in the work allowance in the budget tomorrow. Increasing the work allowance would help to ensure that those who are in work but who are on low incomes have a better chance of lifting themselves and their families out of poverty, and it would substantially boost the welfare to work incentive that would be available.
Will the cabinet secretary join me in congratulating Renfrewshire Council on the publication of its tackling poverty commission report? Following the publication of the report, what will the Scottish Government do to help Renfrewshire Council to lift children out of poverty in Renfrewshire?
Like many other parts of west and central Scotland, Renfrewshire is an area where there is a great deal of poverty among children. We will work with Renfrewshire Council, and indeed every council, in urban and rural areas, to tackle child poverty. The best way to do that is to ensure that we get a Government that is prepared to adopt the kind of policies on tax and benefits that would benefit poorer people, and the best way to do that is to transfer responsibility for tax and benefits to this Parliament, because, irrespective of which party forms the Government in London—Labour or Tory—there is no doubt that Tory policies will continue.
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