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Chamber and committees

European Committee, 28 Jan 2003

Meeting date: Tuesday, January 28, 2003


Contents


EC/EU Legislation (Implementation)

The Convener:

The last item of business today concerns the implementation of European Community and European Union legislation. We continued this from our previous meeting because we were short of time. I thought that we could run through some of the issues page by page. If there is anything that Stephen Imrie wants to highlight, I would be happy for him to do that, because the paper that the clerks and legal adviser have prepared is quite complicated.

There are a number of recommendations throughout the paper. We will have to deal with them as we go. The first section concerns the Scottish Executive finance and central services department and directive 2001/78/EC. The suggestion is that we ask for further information and examples of directives that have been implemented differently in Scotland. Do colleagues want to comment on that? Is the committee generally happy with that recommendation?

It is a helpful recommendation.

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

The next section is on the environment group and directive 2002/62/EC. The legal adviser believes that a satisfactory explanation has been given to the committee on why no regulations are being made. I would be happy to accept the legal advice on that if the committee agrees. Are we agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

On directive 2001/81/EC, it is recommended that we consider whether to ask the Executive for a detailed explanation of the proposed UK means of delivery of that obligation and for some clarification as to why it is in Scotland interests to

"tie in with the proposed means of delivery for the UK to meet the obligations."

That is, we need a bit of further information. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

The second main section of the report is about compliance with the time frame for implementation. We have had further information on the transposition of directive 2001/15/EC and are reasonably happy with that.

On directive 2002/70/EC, there is a deadline for implementation of 28 February 2003 and no indication of whether we can meet that deadline, so the recommendation is that we seek further information on that. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

On directive 2002/69/EC, which relates to food standards, we are told that the deadline for implementation will not be met, but we have no information about why, so we will ask for further information on that point. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

It is also recommended that we ask the Executive what steps it has taken to approach the European Commission to ask for additional time for transposition, given that we will not meet the deadline. We want further information on whether we are in any negotiation with the Commission on that. Are we agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

On directives 2001/46/EC, 2002/32/EC, 2001/114/EC, 2002/46/EC and 2002/2/EC, it is recommended that we seek further information about whether transposition will occur on time. Is that agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

Is it agreed that we should check whether the subject matter of directive 2002/72/EC is reserved or devolved?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

The next section of the paper is on the justice department. On directive 1999/22/EC, we felt that we required further information on the reason for late implementation, which was given as UK-wide co-ordination. It is recommended that we consider asking the Executive to provide details as to why UK-wide co-ordination is thought to be necessary. The legal adviser suggests that, as a matter of Community law, such co-ordination would not be accepted as a valid justification for late implementation. Do we agree to explore that issue with the Executive?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

The next section is headed "Environment and Rural Affairs Department (Agriculture)". There are several environmental and rural affairs directives for which transposition will be late, and they are listed in the committee papers. We ask that we be given further information about those, as we were told that late implementation was because foot-and-mouth disease was given priority. Further information would be useful, because our legal advisers tell us that that situation would not be accepted in Community law. Are members agreed?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

The environment group directive, 2002/3/EC, is late, and we have no indication as to when we are likely to meet that transposition date. There will be further information about that.

In the next part of the paper, I have summarised the general comments about the reporting system so that I could seek the committee's approval to get further information. We want the presentation of reports that are sent to the committee to be improved, because much of this process involves looking at previous reports that the Executive has given to the committee as well as cross-referencing such reports. That would make matters a little easier for us. For example, it would be helpful if reports included a section showing when a directive has been met or transposed and has been signed off. If that were done, the committee could be confident that the directive had been signed off and that its absence was not a typographical error and it had not simply disappeared from the list.

We have come across several inaccuracies in the information that is provided, so it would be helpful if the committee were provided with clear and accurate information. Some departments do not have outstanding directives requiring transposition, and it would be useful if they sent a line saying so, rather than giving no information at all.

Implementing those recommendations would assist with the presentation and accuracy of information. Are members agreed that we should request that?

Members indicated agreement.

Sarah Boyack:

Those recommendations are useful for our scrutiny process. However, they are also useful for the Executive to use as a double check and aide-mémoire to ensure that officials catch the dates as they come up.

It is also important to have information on the use of derogations. That is useful for other committees in the Parliament. The Executive should check off directives as committees go through them. It is important that people see us going through that process rather than seeing it as a mystical process that we can occasionally work out after clerks and officials have communed at huge effort. Therefore I support your point about transparency.

I would like to ask about directive 2001/42/EC, which is the strategic environmental assessment directive. The proposed date for transposition is July 2004, which sounds like a long time away. I know how complex and challenging that will be when it comes through. Could the Executive give us a legal note or a policy brief about how it intends to handle the consultation associated with the directive? It could also give us some early thoughts about the scope and timing of that work as regards the content of the directive and how the Executive sees its impact on us. It is a huge issue for the Executive, but also for a series of public bodies that the Executive funds. It would be useful to get an early view of the Executive's thinking on that.

The Convener:

I am happy to do that. I hope that, with research staff in Brussels, we will move gradually to a situation where many of these matters are flagged up to the committee early, so that we can see years ahead and get in early with our questioning of the Executive. We have developed a system in the past 18 months that allows us to tease out these issues, become more transparent about how we proceed and ensure that there is adequate negotiation and preparation. I am happy to ask for a briefing, if other members agree.

Helen Eadie:

Like Sarah Boyack, I find the format of the paper helpful. Some of the topics, such as that of the Food Standards Agency, are high on the public agenda and are of real concern. The presentation is good, because the columns help us to identify the flow and to what extent our obligations are being met.

The directive that caught my eye is 2002/70/EC, which is on

"establishing requirements for the determination of levels of dioxins and dioxin-like PCBs in feedingstuffs".

There is no indication of where that directive is going except that the transposition deadline is 28 February. We have no indication of whether the transposition will be complete by the deadline and if it is not, when it will be complete. There is a whole row blank, so the briefing paper is helpful for giving us information in a complex area of policy and obligations.

The Convener:

There is a final point in relation to the use of derogations. We have a choice about how we might want to proceed. We can try to establish why a derogation has been used and try to get information about it. We could also pass on subject matters that are important to committees. I think that it is important to take a detailed view and to try to engage with the committees. I acknowledge that we are working with limited resources, but I suggest that we try to take an aggressive approach and work in partnership with the other committees by providing them with as much information as we can. We can review the procedure if it is too much for the committee clerks or too much of a drain on our resources. Do members agree to that?

Helen Eadie:

That is really helpful. We would be flagging up to members of the public who might not be aware of it the way in which derogations work and the impact that they can have on our legislation. We would be mainstreaming the issue—it is a bit like equal opportunities issues. We have to consider how we get the matrix involvement of other committees in the work that we are doing.

The Convener:

There are two options. We can either just flag up to a committee the fact that there is a derogation and allow it to undertake its own investigation. Alternatively, we can try to ascertain why there is a derogation, get further information and pass that on to the committee. I would be prepared to take the aggressive and detailed approach, but I am happy to hear what other members think.

Sarah Boyack:

We could call it the assertive and inquisitive approach. Unless we understand why a derogation has been sought or why it has been considered and not sought, we will not understand its significance. We need the information before we can judge the derogation's significance. Transparency would be helpful. If we find that we get far too many derogations to consider, we can pass them on to the subject committees. Derogations should not be missed, because some are hugely significant for areas such as the environment or industry. It would help if we were more transparent, because people could then understand why decisions come to us as they do and what scope we have to influence them.

The Convener:

I think that we are agreed in principle that we take a detailed approach in the first instance and monitor the process as we go along.

The final matter to consider is the exchange of correspondence on the October 2002 implementation report. Colleagues will recall that we wrote back to the Minister for Environment and Rural Development asking for further information on a number of directives. That information is contained within the body of the report that we have. In principle, it meets the committee's requirements. If members felt that there were difficulties, it would be appropriate to go through each directive individually, but given that we have been able to ascertain the detail of what we required of the minister, I would be happy to agree the report. Do members want to raise points on that?

I have a number of points to raise, but I could raise them with the committee clerk and if there is anything significant I could draw it to your attention later.

Are members happy to agree the report?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener:

That brings us to the end of our meeting. I remind members that the Greek ambassador is coming on Thursday and it would be helpful if anyone who is available could come along. At the next meeting, which is on 11 February, we are likely to hear the final set of witnesses giving oral evidence to our inquiry. We hope that the Minister for Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning will make it to the meeting and we understand that members of the European Commission will try to come over from Brussels. That should be a useful final part of our evidence taking. We are also due to receive the Executive's response to our report on representation in the EU. The meeting will probably be quite lengthy and members' indulgence will be appreciated.

Meeting closed at 15:56.


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