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Chamber and committees

Audit Committee, 18 Sep 2001

Meeting date: Tuesday, September 18, 2001


Contents


National Health Service (Tayside)

The Convener:

Item 4 deals with national health service bodies in Tayside. The responses from the Scottish Executive and NHS Tayside—the NHS Tayside response includes a report from Tayside Health Board—seem to address positively all the issues raised by the Audit Committee. The Executive and Tayside Health Board have accepted all the committee's recommendations and conclusions and have indicated what action has been or will be taken to address each point. They have also indicated who has primary responsibility for implementing each of the recommendations and the time scale for implementation. I am happy to note that the Scottish Executive describes our report as thorough and that our 15 recommendations and conclusions either have been implemented or are on-going, with firm timetables set for implementation.

I note that the Scottish Executive firmly intends to learn from the past. Similarly, Tayside Health Board says that it will

"learn from the experiences of the past."

It details actions that have been taken or that are planned, with the objective of adopting a best- practice approach to governance. The board unanimously accepted the broad findings of our report and has taken action.

Mr Davidson:

In the table that is appended to the Scottish Executive's response, recommendations 11 and 12 highlight the health department's monitoring role. At recommendation 13, the Executive says:

"the Department's attitude was reactive and too dependent on information compiled by local health bodies."

Does the committee intend to pursue further inquiries on those three points?

The Convener:

Yes. We have always said that our reports are not one-offs. The officials who are involved will return to explain their actions and the improvements that they have made. We will have opportunities to deal with the issues. The rolling programme of investigation of the NHS by Audit Scotland will provide another opportunity.

Our main concern is that improvements are made. We must allow the Tayside health authorities time to implement the measures. After a suitable interval, officials will be called back to the committee to report on what I hope will be further progress.

The points that I raised concerned the health department's activities rather than those of Tayside. I appreciate that the health authorities need time to do their bit. I am more concerned about the comments on the department's activities.

What I said also applies to the health department, but it would be convenient to take evidence from all involved at the same time, rather than at separate meetings.

Margaret Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab):

Those matters were raised extensively when we questioned the then chief executive of the NHS in Scotland, Geoff Scaife. The committee homed in on the way in which he operated. What has happened has continued for many years in the health service. If we look for changes that we can recommend, we are considering matters that are not for this committee but for someone else.

Our investigations relate to the Audit Scotland report.

Paul Martin (Glasgow Springburn) (Lab):

As has been said, a comprehensive investigation has been conducted. We should pick up the points that Peter Bates made when he gave evidence. In his closing statement, he said that NHS Tayside should be given the opportunity to make recommendations and act on them. We should monitor that process through Audit Scotland and perhaps revisit the matter to ensure that the recommendations have been acted on, because the health board has presented its position well and must be commended on that. However, it goes without saying that its delivering on its intentions is the important part of the process.

The health board has taken steps to ensure that staff, local elected representatives and community representatives are part of the recovery process. The organisations should be given every opportunity to complete that process, to ensure that health provision is improved in Tayside.

Scott Barrie (Dunfermline West) (Lab):

I will respond to Mr Davidson. We have a pretty robust and comprehensive statement about how the health department and the health board are proceeding following the publication of our report. On recommendation 13, I highlighted the fact that the health department has said that it will share the protocol with the committee when it is finalised. At our previous meeting, several bodies—including one of which we had been critical—provided clear updates on how they had implemented all the recommendations that we made. I have no doubt that that will happen with Tayside.

Mr Keith Raffan (Mid Scotland and Fife) (LD):

The responses from Tayside Health Board and the health department—but particularly the one from Tayside—are comprehensive and impressive. We should take on board what Peter Bates said. The organisations have been subjected to an intensive investigation that has lasted several months. It is only fair to let the new regime have a chance to settle in. We could reconsider the matter towards next summer.

The Convener:

Our report has been recognised as one of the most direct and significant that the Parliament has produced. I note the willingness to learn from the past. We will allow time for the bodies involved to settle down. They can report to us after a suitable interval.

Do the representatives of Audit Scotland wish to comment?

Mr Robert Black (Auditor General for Scotland):

I say for the record that we examined carefully both sets of responses and we think they are good.

On Mr Davidson's point, I remind members that on 12 June 2001, Trevor Jones outlined briefly for the committee the new performance management systems that are being introduced in the health service under its latest restructuring. On paper, those new systems offer the promise of providing more effective accountability between the department and the unified health boards.

The committee's intention to await developments under the new arrangements and to evaluate them at a suitable stage is appropriate. In the meantime, the programme of action that has been laid out by Tayside Health Board is appropriate.

The Convener:

The committee has raised issues such as failures in formal reporting and investigation by health officials, the breakdown in management control and in effective systems of internal financial control and the need to restore public confidence and robust and effective monitoring systems. Our comments have produced positive responses—some measures are in place, some will be effective from a set date and some work is on-going with set dates for completion. The committee should note that there is work in progress and that we will return to the matter.

There is little to be pursued at present so I propose that, in line with the report, we continue to monitor with Audit Scotland the financial position in Tayside and that Audit Scotland updates the committee in due course. Is that proposal agreed to?

Members indicated agreement.