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Chamber and committees

Audit Committee, 06 Mar 2001

Meeting date: Tuesday, March 6, 2001


Contents


Scottish Enterprise

The Convener:

Agenda item 4 relates to the response from the Scottish Executive to the committee's report, "Scottish Enterprise: Skillseekers Training for Young People". Members will have received both the Scottish Executive's response, a summary of the conclusions and recommendations of the Audit Committee and the responses from the Scottish Executive. We seem to have again a broadly positive response from the Scottish Executive; the committee's proposals have been accepted in principle.

Members will notice that we specified in our recommendations that the department should report back on several issues in April 2001. Would the committee like clarification on any issues now, or are members content to wait until we receive that further report?

Paul Martin:

I will raise an issue about point 5, in the summary of the Executive's response. I raised the issue about tracking of trainees during our consideration of the report. Further information on that will be in the final report, but I would welcome innovation in the use of information technology to track clients, to ensure that we have positive outcomes and, at the same time, that we are getting value for money. We seem to be clever at using information technology in other areas of industry, but not so innovative in programmes such as skillseekers.

That is a fair point. Do you want me to make it known to the Executive?

Paul Martin:

I know that we are waiting for the final report, but an integral part of the evidence was that we wanted to track the trainees—the clients—to ensure that they were not being reintroduced to other programmes and that there were positive outcomes.

During the evidence taking, we did not receive a response that said, "Yes. We are looking at a software program that will allow us to do that." We were told that it is very difficult to follow clients. I appreciate that, but we must overcome those difficulties so that we can move forward.

It would be useful to let the Scottish Executive know about the committee's interest in that issue. We will pass on that point to it.

Mr Raffan:

Again, I was not present during the inquiry. Before we get down to detail, I will raise a point about paragraph 4 of the Executive's general response, in which the Executive disagrees with the committee on achieving qualifications and on the situation in which a participant makes progress but does not complete a course.

Perhaps it is just the way that the paragraph is written; I accept the Executive's point that

"Expenditure takes place only when a young person achieves a measurable milestone"

and so on. However, the emphasis should be that all those who are taking vocational qualifications should be more than encouraged—perhaps the word pressured could be used, but it is an unfortunate word—to complete those qualifications.

You might find that there is a reaction to the word pressured.

Mr Raffan:

I will stick with "encouraged".

I do not know what the drop-out rate is. I presume that the committee knows that because it has taken evidence on the issue. I also do not know the number of people who, having dropped out, return to complete a course, having previously reached a measurable stage of that course.

My concern is about the way that the document is worded. It is difficult to track what is being achieved if people drop out without being encouraged to complete qualifications; it should be made clear to people when they start courses that the expectation is that they will complete those courses.

Margaret Jamieson:

On the evidence, there are many reasons why people drop out. People do not drop out only to do nothing; they drop out to move on to employment and to other forms of training. That was made clear to the committee. More encouragement must be given to individuals who drop out for no reason.

Margaret Jamieson covered the point that I was going to make about the evidence.

The Executive's précis of the evidence says that the committee

"suggested that expenditure which did not lead to a VQ might be wasted."

The Convener:

The fault may be in the précis, but no doubt the Scottish Executive will read the record of the committee's proceedings. We will get a second chance when we receive the more detailed information. If members of the Scottish Executive read the proceedings, they will know of Keith Raffan's interest. That point can be followed through when we get the report.

That said, does the committee agree to accept the Executive's response?

Members indicated agreement.