Official Report 111KB pdf
That seems to conclude the business agenda. Alasdair has kindly prepared a proposed agenda for future meetings. Ian Jenkins flagged up that the timing of the meeting is a problem for him. We have the parameters of Tuesday morning in which to work. As I said previously, I am happy to come and go with the wishes of the committee, as I live close to the Parliament.
Earlier suits me. I travel for two hours. I know that the two who are not here also have to travel, but meeting at this time would render a good deal of the day inoperable for me because of the travelling back and forth. I understand the problems of Ian and Fergus, but mine are similar. If I get here earlier I miss the traffic—that happens both ways. Perhaps we can agree that some of the meetings should be earlier and some at this time. Either way, it would help.
How do other members feel about that?
The meetings are always on Tuesday mornings.
Yes, apart from two on a Monday. I am willing to go along with a variable time on a Tuesday.
I was also in favour of meeting at 11 am, as we did today. I would not be happy to meet before 10 am because I do not want to be committed to being in Edinburgh on a Monday night, as I would have to be to guarantee being here.
Can I suggest that you, Ian, have a word with the other Ian and with Fergus to try to strike a balance. I am flexible, and rather than our putting the matter to a vote and causing disgruntlement, you may be able to come to a working arrangement.
Various general points had to be discussed, but there could be occasions when there are more statutory instruments. Members will certainly need a full half-hour normally. Three quarters of an hour might be better—three quarters is safe and there is no rush, whereas in the half-hour that we had there was a learning curve both on my side and on the members' side.
What is the rationale for meeting on the Monday afternoons?
There is a trip to London to see the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments. That committee meets on 26 October—a Tuesday—so Alasdair and I will be unavailable then. There is a parliamentary holiday on 30 November—accordingly that Tuesday is not available. The difficulty is that other committees are timetabled for Wednesdays. I would be reluctant to meet on a Wednesday evening, which is when the committee of conveners meets, and meeting on Monday is probably preferable to meeting on Friday.
I would prefer not to meet on a Monday or a Friday, which are constituency work time for me. However, if it is in extremis, fair enough.
You can take it, Ian, that we will not regularly meet on Mondays. We are doing so only because two particular Tuesdays are not available.
I am with Ian on that: we should be in our constituencies on Mondays and Fridays, but I accept that meetings will occasionally have to take place then, as long as we get plenty of notice.
Shall we extend the pre-meeting?
To three quarters of an hour.
We should reconsider our start time at the next meeting, when we should reconvene at 10.30 am with an 11.15 am public start.
I do not expect other Tuesdays to give rise to similar problems; it is just that the London meeting and St Andrew's day fall on a Tuesday. We are boxed in by the parliamentary committee timetable.
No.
Are you happy, Bob, about the legal briefing note? Will it come out with the papers in future, or will it be available on the morning?
Ideally, the committee should have it the night before so that, if members arrive in Edinburgh on a Tuesday morning, they have a chance to read it—members were reading it today. We will have half an hour to go through it, or slightly longer. We should aim to get it to members by Monday evening, but I suspect that it would be impractical for the note to be sent out to members on the Friday, because things change. Members should expect to receive it sometime on the Monday or Tuesday morning.
That is great.
Shall we discuss the timing of meetings—the number of days in which documents can be laid—or are we leaving that for another meeting?
I would like to reserve an opportunity to come back to how the papers are prepared for us. I have found getting to grips with what they are about pretty heavy going. Part of the question is how the papers are presented to us. It is important that we establish what is user-friendly for members. I am not saying that the paper is not user-friendly, but we deserve the right to say that we would prefer to have information packaged in a way that facilitates our understanding of the issues.
I found the explanatory notes helpful, although a couple of them claimed not to be the explanatory note for a particular order, which confused me—I will learn as I go along.
I do not know whether the agenda could show for each item whether there is a note or no note. Would that be too complicated to tie up with the legal advisers, Alasdair?
We can certainly examine that possibility, although there will in some cases be extreme time pressure. We can work with that, by and large.
Everyone was scribbling things down and going back through the papers—that was not anyone's fault. If the agenda mentioned where to look, it would be easier for all members.
This meeting has examined things that happened during the recess. Once the Parliament is up and running, the timing will be better. A number of the statutory instruments that we examined today were revoked. That is one of the reasons why we had the two agendas. It would clearly be in everyone's interest if the agenda and the notes went together. No one would suggest that today's arrangements have been ideal, but things will improve.
When I first saw the Environmental Impact Assessment (Scotland) Regulations 1999, I took one look at the document and thought, "No, thank you." I sent it to the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, which kindly responded within 24 hours on the basis that everything was hunky-dory. I mention that as an aside and as an idea that members might want to examine—if you send regulations to the appropriate governing organisation, they will, in some instances, do your scanning for you.
Meeting closed at 11:23.