Justice 1 Committee, 26 Nov 2003

Meeting date: Wednesday, November 26, 2003

Official Report 268KB pdf

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HM Prison Greenock

Agenda item 3 is on the visit to HM Prison Greenock. Margaret Mitchell hoped to go with us on the visit, but in the end was unable to do so. Members will receive a full report of the visit in time, but does Mr Maxwell want to give feedback on the visit now?

The visit to Greenock was useful and interesting, particularly because of the mix of female, male, remand, long-term and short-term prisoners and even asylum seekers—a wide variety of people are in the prison.

For me, the most useful part of the day was the discussion with a group of female prisoners. Several questions were raised during that discussion that we should at least ask the Scottish Prison Service about. In particular, we should ask about home visits. Several female prisoners said that they are not allowed to have home visits from Greenock prison, but must instead go via HMP Cornton Vale. They have to go to Cornton Vale for two months to get two days out, then go back to Cornton Vale and, eventually, back to Greenock. We were subsequently given reasons for that system, but when I put those reasons to prison officers in discussions over lunch, they did not agree that they were the real reasons. There is confusion; at the least, a question has been raised about why home visits are not allowed from local prisons. We should write to the Prison Service on that issue.

The visit was useful. We wanted to see the new conditions for female prisoners who have moved to Greenock from Cornton Vale. We received mixed views on the conditions but, on the whole, the views were positive. Prisoners can sign up for a greater variety of activities at Greenock. For example, joinery is not available at Cornton Vale, which makes me wonder whether we should think about the activities that are available at Cornton Vale. The visit was impressive.

One point arose in the introduction that Tony Cameron gave before we began to move round the prison. He mentioned the rising prison population and said that he and his researcher have been studying other jurisdictions, including Scandinavian countries, that show similar trends. Although Scotland is still one of the countries that use a high level of custody, trends seem to be similar in other countries. Tony Cameron offered to give evidence to the committee on that issue. If we take up the offer, his evidence might help to inform our inquiry on sentencing.

I was not at Greenock to hear that information, but it is not new. For a number of years, the overall trend in Europe, including Scandinavia, has been an increase in use of custody. In Europe as a whole, an increase of around 19 per cent in the prison population is expected in the next 10 to 20 years. The increase is happening across the board and the key for us will be how we manage the increase. Given that the increase is beyond doubt, the committee must consider how to deal with it.

I do not disagree with that. If we were to include the evidence from Tony Cameron in our inquiry, we would hear about the experiences of other countries and how they manage rising prison populations. The suggestion is that New Zealand has the most effective system. Such evidence might inform our inquiry, if members want to consider that perspective. Are members happy to take that evidence?

Members indicated agreement.

The meeting has been a long one, but it has been helpful to get on the record evidence on the Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill, although the evidence did not answer all our questions; indeed, it has given us more questions. However, it was a good start on an important bill.

I remind members that the next committee meeting will be on Wednesday 3 December in committee room 2, when we will take evidence from a range of witnesses on the Criminal Procedure (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill.

Meeting closed at 13:15.