Scotland Week
I welcome everyone to this meeting of the Transport and the Environment Committee. Joining us today are Jamie McGrigor, who is sitting in for our aquaculture inquiry, and Professor Paul Read, who is our committee adviser on aquaculture.
Agenda item 3 is on Scotland week. Members have received a paper from Bristow Muldoon that outlines his thoughts on Scotland week, which he attended as a representative of the committee. Bristow will speak to that paper and take questions from members.
I was, on behalf of the committee, asked to attend a couple of the Scotland week events on environmental issues. I attended two events; one was a seminar on increasing awareness and changing attitudes to the environment and the other was a workshop on diffuse pollution. I have, for members' benefit, attached a copy of all the papers that I received during the two days that I spent attending the events. I recommend that members read those papers, because they will be helpful and informative in the context of some of the work that the committee will be involved in during the next few months, including the aquaculture inquiry and work on the legislation that will flow from the water framework directive.
The first of the events—on increasing awareness and changing attitudes to the environment—emphasised that there is a need for the Transport and the Environment Committee to become more engaged with the European dimension. The vast majority of current environmental legislation is initiated at European level. That key message came from several speakers; Ross Finnie, the Minister for Environment and Rural Development, and David Grant Lawrence—on behalf of the European Commission—emphasised that view, which was shared by the two members of the European Parliament who took part in the seminar.
The minister outlined, during the course of his presentation, some of the promotional and educational work that the Scottish Executive is undertaking. The presentation aimed to improve people's awareness of environmental issues, of the actions that the Executive is taking and of how those actions impact on the environment. The presentation was warmly received.
One of the areas that the committee might want to consider in future is the way in which we can learn from environmental work that is already under way in other parts of the European Union. As part of the seminar, the Minister for the Environment from the Västra Götaland region of Sweden—members must excuse my Swedish pronunciation, it is not one of my top European languages—spoke about the Swedish experience of dealing with environmental issues.
At some stage, it would be useful to explore the possibility of building links with Västra Götaland, because it is widely recognised that Sweden is a little bit ahead of us in dealing with environmental concerns. It is interesting to note that the Västra Götaland region of Sweden and the Scottish Parliament were established at the same time. A process of devolution was going on in Sweden and Scotland at the same time. We should also explore links with other regions of Europe from which there are lessons that we can learn.
David Grant Lawrence of the European environment directorate-general spoke about the need for greater integration between the various regions and nation states of the European Union. He acknowledged the extent to which the public sector has made a major input into improving environmental issues throughout Europe. He welcomed initiatives such as Scotland's joining up to promote the European car-free day in its cities from 2002 onwards. David Grant Lawrence also identified areas in which the UK could become more engaged with environmental issues at European level. He said that schools in the UK could make more use of the considerable amount of educational material on European environmental issues. We could suggest that to the appropriate minister in due course.
I suffered for the committee on the day of the workshop—eight hours on diffuse pollution. However, the workshop was worth while and it was attended by several experts. Members received copies of the papers only yesterday, so they will not have had an opportunity to go through them yet. I suggest that that it would be worth while to do so prior to our work on the water framework directive.
Professor David Kay from the University of Wales presented one of the first papers at the workshop. He examined issues that are associated with the quality of bathing water in Ayrshire and compliance with EU regulations. One of the key points that was identified by Professor Kay was the extent to which the effect of diffuse pollution needs to be taken into account to comply with existing and future regulations. He identified several case studies in which, although expensive engineering solutions had dealt with human sewage, beaches continued to fail the test of the regulations, for which the core reason was that the impact of diffuse pollution on those bathing areas had not been taken into account. Professor Kay emphasised the need to produce environmental models that take account of human sewage and of pollution from agricultural and other outputs if, in future, we are to achieve the targets that have been set.
The workshop also included a seminar by the manager of Bretagne eau pure, who highlighted some of the methods that Bretagne eau pure had introduced in partnership with the agricultural industry to reduce the output of nutrients into water systems. If members go through their papers they will find that I have kindly provided them with a French copy of the report. However, in case any members are not fully conversant with French, I have also provided an English copy. I am sure, however, that members will all be satisfied with the French version.
In addition, representatives from the Västra Götaland region in Sweden went through some of their methods of introducing wetlands to reduce nitrogen and phosphorous pollution of water systems. Finally, there are also reports from some of our home-grown representatives at the seminar—Brian Darcy and David Harley of the Scottish Environment Protection Agency—on how to build sustainable urban drainage into our planning systems in order to reduce pollution of our waterways by urban drainage. I have attached copies of all those presentations.
I return to my initial point. If the committee is going to be effective in promoting environmental improvement in Scotland, it is essential that we consider—with our colleagues on the European Committee and in the Executive—how to engage effectively with the European Parliament and European Commission to ensure that we are aware of environmental developments and that we can influence those developments prior to their being enacted. I recommend that the committee undertake that work soon to ensure that we fulfil our duties appropriately. I am happy to take questions.
Thank you. Your report covered many topical issues and interesting lessons that can be learned. The eight-hour shift that you put in on diffuse pollution will benefit the work that the committee is undertaking in the short term. We have decided to focus part of our away-day work on European matters—that is being organised. We will also have a meeting about environmental matters in Europe with Margot Wallström of the European Commission. Your point about influencing European legislation prior to its framing is a lesson that we must learn throughout Parliament, but particularly in this committee.
I thank Bristow Muldoon on behalf of the committee. We appreciate his verbal and written reports, which we can use as reference for the future. I invite questions from members.
On behalf of the committee, I thank Bristow Muldoon for his hard work in attending the seminars and in particular the one on diffuse pollution. On Professor Kay's report, I have a vested interest in the Ayrshire bathing waters in question and I have two points to make. First, on the note in appendix B of Professor Kay's study, I want to point out that Ayrshire is in the south-west of Scotland rather than the south-east, as the document says. I am not sure whose fault that is. However, I think that Ayr would like to be regarded as being in the south-west of Scotland. My second and more important point is to ask whether Professor Kay offered any specific solutions to the diffuse pollution that torments Ayrshire.
I am sure that Professor Kay is well aware that Ayrshire is in the south-west of Scotland as opposed to the south-east. I presume that that is just a typographical error. Copies of all Professor Kay's slides are available on the internet. I recommend that reference source to members.
Possible solutions to diffuse pollution were discussed during the course of the seminar. Some solutions involve the introduction of limited wetlands, which would reduce the outflow of nutrients from agricultural land into neighbouring bays and so on. The problem that Professor Kay identified in Ayrshire is not a problem all the time; however, high rainfall in particular triggers the failure of the beaches to meet standards. One solution could be to stem the flow of nutrients and bacteria such as coliforms from agricultural land into bathing waters.
The other possible solution is the one that the representative from Brittany identified. Environmental organisations and agricultural interests there worked in partnership in order to reduce the level of nutrient input on agricultural land, to plan that more effectively and to understand what the impact on the surrounding environment would be. Those are two of the key areas that could be addressed; solutions are available.
A key point to make is that nobody in the seminar was overly critical of agriculture; they all recognised the importance of agriculture. They were trying to emphasise that we need to understand its impacts and to plan strategies that will reduce impacts on the environment.
I read the papers last night. I read the French paper and, feeling very proud of myself for struggling through it, found to my consternation that there was an English translation.
I do not quite understand what is being proposed for urban waste water. The papers talk about porous and non-porous surfaces. Is the suggestion that there ought to be more grass and parks in urban areas? What exactly is being suggested?
There is a range of suggestions. One idea is that some of the hard, porous surfaces in urban areas might hold water for longer so that when it hits the ground it does not run off immediately into drains.
Other solutions were discussed at the seminar. It was suggested that new housing developments would have natural run-off areas from which water could run off into small ponds. That would result in natural treatment of potential pollutants, rather than the historical position in which the water merely runs off into the drains. There are a number of examples of that sort of solution being designed as part of new housing or industrial developments throughout Scotland.
Would that not lead to a build up of pollutants in those areas? The same might apply to the build up of nitrates in agricultural areas. Perhaps that information is on Professor Kay's slides on the internet.
I do not know whether it is fair to ask Bristow those questions. If he feels brave enough to answer them, I will let him go for it. It might be more appropriate to pursue those matters elsewhere.
I agree.
A new part of the estate south of Craigmillar in Edinburgh is being redesigned. Many of those ideas on wetlands and porous car parks are being incorporated into the redesign.
I appreciate Bristow Muldoon's contribution. The issue of educational materials, which Bristow raised in his report, is worth pursuing. Perhaps he will discuss that with the clerks and we can send a letter to the appropriate minister.