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Chamber and committees

Justice Committee

Meeting date: Tuesday, June 19, 2012


Contents


Subordinate Legislation


Licensed Legal Services (Specification of Regulated Professions) (Scotland) Regulations 2012 [Draft]


Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010 (Ancillary Provision) Regulations 2012 [Draft]

The Convener

We have two affirmative instruments to consider today. Under item 3, we are to take evidence from the minister and her officials on the draft Licensed Legal Services (Specification of Regulated Professions) (Scotland) Regulations 2012 before formally debating the motion to approve the regulations under item 4. The Subordinate Legislation Committee has not drawn the Parliament’s attention to the regulations on any grounds within its remit.

I welcome the Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs, who is accompanied by two Scottish Government officials: Bobby Sandeman, head of courts and legal services reform; and Michael Gilmartin, a solicitor with the Scottish Government.

If you are ready, minister, I invite you to make a short opening statement before we move on to questions.

Can I be clear about which Scottish statutory instrument we are doing here? Is it the one that deals with specification of regulated professions?

It is indeed.

Roseanna Cunningham

Thank you.

The Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010 (Ancillary Provision) Regulations 2012 are very technical in nature. They amend three pieces of primary legislation. First, they amend the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980 to allow foreign lawyers to be registered for the purpose of becoming a solicitor investor in a licensed provider. Secondly, they amend the Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 1986 to ensure that licensed providers can carry out legal aid work. Thirdly, they amend the Legal Profession and Legal Aid (Scotland) Act 2007 to clarify that when Scottish ministers make further ancillary provision under that act, the power to do so is exercisable by order.

With the committee’s indulgence, I will concentrate more on the draft Licensed Legal Services (Specification of Regulated Professions) (Scotland) Regulations 2012, which is the instrument that is of specific interest to the committee.

The Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010 allows solicitors who offer legal services in Scotland to operate using certain models that have previously been prohibited. It removes restrictions on solicitors who are entering into business relationships with non-solicitors, and allows investment by non-solicitors in the new licensed providers. Section 49 of the 2010 act requires that at least 51 per cent of the total ownership or control of any licensed provider must lie with qualifying investors, namely solicitor investors and investors who are members of other regulated professions. Scottish ministers are required to set out in regulations what is to be regarded as a regulated profession, and may also specify what is to be regarded as membership of such a profession.

The Government consulted on what is to be regarded as a regulated profession. In compiling the list of professions in the schedule we took careful note of the comments and suggestions of those who responded and we applied two criteria: that professional groups are subject to a robust system of regulation, including a code of conduct, entry requirements and disciplinary procedures; and that members of such groups are reasonably likely to enter into a business arrangement with solicitors and so take advantage of new business structures that are permitted by the 2010 act.

We believe that this is a list of robustly regulated professionals who are fit to have a majority stake in a licensed provider. However, the list is not necessarily complete. We will continue to consider other professions—particularly those that were suggested during the consultation exercise—once the regulatory framework is fully operational.

Can I confirm that you have not also spoken about the draft Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010 (Ancillary Provision) Regulations 2012?

My focus was on the draft Licensed Legal Services (Specification of Regulated Professions) (Scotland) Regulations 2012.

Do committee members have any questions? Have you been beaten into submission?

Graeme Pearson

Almost, but I have what I hope are helpful questions for the minister.

There were concerns among solicitors that the opening up of the ownership of licensed providers might leave them open to being undermined by organised crime. Is the system of regulation—the code of conduct and so on—sufficiently robust to protect the profession in the years ahead? In the event that concerns are raised about ownership, is there a system to deal with those quickly?

Roseanna Cunningham

As far as I am aware, nothing under the proposed arrangements will make life any easier for organised crime than at present. The Law Society of Scotland has made a lot of comments and raised a lot of issues—mostly about what might be perceived in some quarters as a threat to its business—but the threat is not from organised crime; the threat is more about firms being swallowed up by other firms.

So the threat is from competitors.

Roseanna Cunningham

That is mainly what has been expressed to me, rather than the issue that you raised. We can double-check that and come back to you, but I do not have any information that suggests that what we propose will make life any easier for organised crime. We would be as quick to jump on that if we thought that it was going to happen—or indeed if we saw it happening—as you would expect us to be.

The Convener

We now move to item 4—the formal debate on the draft Licensed Legal Services (Specification of Regulated Professions) (Scotland) Regulations 2012. I ask the minister to move motion S4M-03156.

Motion moved,

That the Justice Committee recommends that the Licensed Legal Services (Specification of Regulated Professions) (Scotland) Regulations 2012 [draft] be approved.—[Roseanna Cunningham.]

No member wishes to speak and the minister has nothing further to add. The question is, that motion S4M-03156 be agreed to.

Motion agreed to.

We are required to report to Parliament on the instrument. Is the committee content to delegate authority to me for the final wording of the report?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener

Item 5—the second affirmative instrument for consideration—is the draft Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010 (Ancillary Provision) Regulations 2012. This is an opportunity to take evidence from the minister and her officials on the instrument before formally debating the motion. The Subordinate Legislation Committee has not drawn the Parliament’s attention to the instrument on any grounds within its remit. Does the minister wish to make a short opening statement?

No.

The Convener

There is no statement and there are no questions.

Item 6 is the formal debate. I ask the minister to move motion S4M-03159.

Motion moved,

That the Justice Committee recommends that the Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010 (Ancillary Provision) Regulations 2012 [draft] be approved.—[Roseanna Cunningham.]

No member wishes to speak and there will be no summing up—I like the way this is running. The question is, that motion S4M-03159 be agreed to.

Motion agreed to.

As with the previous instrument, we are required to report to Parliament on this instrument. Is the committee content to delegate authority to me for the final wording of the report?

Members indicated agreement.

The Convener

I thank the minister and her officials for attending the meeting. There will be another changeover now—it is a bit like “Strictly Come Dancing”—before we move to agenda item 7.

10:39 Meeting suspended.

10:40 On resuming—


Fire and Rescue Services (Framework) (Scotland) Order 2012 (SSI 2012/146)

The Convener

Last week, the committee considered the Fire and Rescue Services (Framework) (Scotland) Order 2012 and agreed to invite the Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs to respond to concerns that were first raised by the Subordinate Legislation Committee. I remind members that this is a negative instrument—I know that you are paying attention and that I did not really have to do that.

The minister is now joined by Evie McLaren, the head of the fire strategy and performance team; and Alicia McKay, a solicitor in the Scottish Government.

I invite the minister to make a short opening statement.

Roseanna Cunningham

Thank you for the opportunity to reassure the committee on the instrument. I understand the issues that were raised by the Subordinate Legislation Committee, but it is clear which document the order will bring into effect. On re-publication of the framework document later this month, that clarity will be put beyond doubt. I hope that the background that I will provide today offers that reassurance because, in fact, we used the order that brought the 2005 fire framework into effect as a precedent. I refer to the fact that the 2005 order pointed to a document that, at the time of laying, was yet to be published, as is the case with the 2012 order. The reason for publication being on a future date is so as not to pre-empt the approving of the order by the Parliament. The document that is referred to must, of course, be available for scrutiny for Parliament to be able to fulfil its duties. We therefore made the document available on the Scottish Government website, as footnoted in the order. As it was made available in May, the document is marked as being published in May 2012 at this stage. The intention was and is to formally publish the document in June 2012, after the Parliament has considered the order, at which stage there will be a clear link in wording between the order and the framework document. I do not think that there is any question over whether the document exists, given that the footnote to the order provides the web address that links directly to the framework.

I would also like to highlight the process through which we prepared the framework. Not only did we meet the requirements of section 40(5) of the Fire (Scotland) Act 2005 in terms of formal consultation, but we worked closely with all key stakeholders throughout its preparation—a process that has been recognised and commended for its partnership approach. All key stakeholders are therefore well aware of and happy with its contents; in fact, it has already begun to shape activity over this important transition period. Given the partnership consensus that has been achieved, there were and are no plans to make any changes to the document before its official publication—or re-publication—in June.

Thank you very much.

As no member has any questions for the minister, is the committee content to note the instrument?

Members indicated agreement.

I thank the minister and her officials. We will have another brief suspension to allow the tables to clear.

10:43 Meeting suspended.

10:43 On resuming—


Licensed Legal Services (Interests in Licensed Providers) (Scotland) Regulations 2012 (SSI 2012/154)

The Convener

Item 8 is also subordinate legislation. There are two further negative instruments for consideration.

On SSI 2012/154, the Subordinate Legislation Committee has not drawn the Parliament’s attention to the instrument on any grounds within its remit. As members have no comments, are we content to note the instrument?

Members indicated agreement.


Parole Board (Scotland) Amendment Rules 2012 (SSI 2012/167)

The Convener

The second negative instrument for consideration is SSI 2012/167. The Subordinate Legislation Committee has drawn the Parliament’s attention to the instrument on one issue, as members will see from paper 7. As members have no comments, are we content to note the instrument?

Members indicated agreement.


Act of Sederunt (Summary Cause Rules Amendment) (Personal Injuries Actions) 2012 (SSI 2012/144)

The Convener

Under item 9 are three instruments for consideration that are not subject to any parliamentary procedure.

On the first, SSI 2012/144, the Subordinate Legislation Committee has not drawn the Parliament’s attention to the instrument on any grounds within its remit. As members have no comments, are we content to make no recommendation in relation to the instrument?

Members indicated agreement.


Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010 (Commencement No 2 and Transitional Provisions) Order 2012 (SSI 2012/152)

The Convener

On SSI 2012/152, the Subordinate Legislation Committee has not drawn the Parliament’s attention to the instrument on any grounds within its remit. If members have no comments, is the committee content to make no recommendation in relation to the instrument?

Members indicated agreement.


Criminal Justice and Licensing (Scotland) Act 2010 (Commencement No 10 and Saving Provisions) Order 2012 (SSI 2012/160)

The Convener

On SSI 2012/160, members will see from paper J/S4/12/21/10 that the Subordinate Legislation Committee has drawn the Parliament’s attention to the instrument on a number of grounds. If members have no comments, is the committee content to make no recommendation in relation to the instrument?

Members indicated agreement.