Justice 2 Committee, 13 Sep 2005

Meeting date: Tuesday, September 13, 2005

Official Report 103KB pdf

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Subordinate Legislation

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Advice and Assistance (Assistance by Way of Representation) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 2005 (draft)

Item 2 is subordinate legislation. Copies of two affirmative instruments have been circulated to members with explanatory briefing papers. Because they are affirmative instruments, we require the presence of the minister to speak to them. I therefore welcome Hugh Henry, the Deputy Minister for Justice, to our meeting. He is accompanied by his advisers, Gillian Mawdsley, Paula Anderson and Ian Vickerstaff. Before the minister moves the motions, I would like to know whether members have any questions to ask or points for clarification to raise.

Are we considering both instruments together?

I think that, for ease, we will first consider motion S2M-3185 on the draft Advice and Assistance (Assistance by Way of Representation) (Scotland) Amendment (No 2) Regulations 2005.

My question is on the second instrument.

Okay. I ask the minister to direct his thoughts to the first instrument.

These draft regulations are required to ensure that assistance by way of representation is available without financial test in connection with proceedings to be conducted before the mental health tribunal for Scotland. The draft regulations, which come into force on 5 October 2005 are, as the convener said, made under the affirmative procedure. They form part of a number of legal aid changes that require to be made to different legal aid regulations to ensure that legal aid is available for proceedings before the mental health tribunal for Scotland and to make other technical changes. They ensure that assistance by way of representation will be available on a similar basis to that which is presently available under the Mental Health (Scotland) Act 1984. No one will fall through the legal aid net as a result of these changes.

I move,

That the Justice 2 Committee recommends that the draft Advice and Assistance (Assistance by Way of Representation) (Scotland) Amendment (No. 2) Regulations 2005 be approved.

Motion agreed to.

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Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) (Scotland) Order 2005 (draft)

We move on to motion S2M-3239 on the draft Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) (Scotland) Order 2005. Mr Henry will speak to and move the motion. His officials Andrea Summers and Mr Gery McLaughlin join him. We welcome you to the meeting.

Again, members should indicate whether they have any questions to ask or points for clarification to raise.

I have a question on the list of weapons that paragraph 1 of the schedule to the draft order describes. Can the minister give us background information on the list? I have never heard of half of the weapons on it. I wonder how the list was agreed to and whether it could give people the opportunity to slip through the net. Clearly, if a weapon is not on the list, the draft order will not cover it. Can the minister comment on that?

Paragraph 2 of the schedule refers to the period of 100 years with regard to antiques. Many weapons that are less than 100 years old could also be classified as antiques. Can the minister clarify that point?

I have a further point for clarification. The schedule describes a "stealth knife" as one

"which is not designed for domestic use or for use in the processing, preparation or consumption of food or as a toy".

I assume that somewhere else in the legislation that exemption covers other forms of knives. It would be helpful if you clarified that for the committee, minister.

I will handle the specific questions first and then go on to the purpose of what we propose.

We are trying to catch in the draft order something other than what the legislation previously described. For example, stealth knives have been described as non-metallic hunting or stiletto knives, made of a range of materials, such as nylon zytel or high-impact plastic. Stealth knives can look like conventional knives, but they are difficult to detect because they are non-metallic.

The nub of the convener's and Stewart Maxwell's questions comes down to the parent legislation, which is the Criminal Justice Act 1988. The list of weapons, some of which Stewart Maxwell has never heard of, and the 100-year period in relation to antiques were specified in orders previously made under section 141 of the 1988 act. That is where the list of weapons in the draft order came from. If a new weapon were identified, we would return to Parliament with a new order, using the same procedure that we are using today, to add the weapon to the list.

A straightforward procedure is therefore available to the Executive and Parliament should there be concerns about types of weapons that had not previously been considered becoming a problem, and I hope that we would follow that procedure. Essentially, we are specifying weapons under section 141 of the 1988 act.

As there are no further questions, minister, I ask you to speak to and move the motion.

The draft Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) (Scotland) Order 2005 consolidates previous offensive weapons orders into a single Scottish order. As you indicated, convener, it adds stealth knives and also batons to the list of specified—that is, banned—weapons.

The Criminal Justice Act 1988 makes it an offence to manufacture, sell, hire, lend, give or import the offensive weapons that are specified in the order. The draft order is made under the powers that are conferred by section 141(2) of the 1988 act. We have made two previous orders under the 1988 act to specify certain descriptions of weapons, and more than a dozen weapons are already banned in that way, including swordsticks, push-daggers, shuriken or death stars and butterfly knives.

I have already referred to stealth knives. We argue that such knives present a general threat because of their portability and concealability. We consider that they have no legitimate purpose and that it is therefore undesirable that they should be freely available for purchase by the public. We are also banning straight, side-handled and friction-lock truncheons, which are sometimes known as batons. They are the type of batons that are used by the police, and prohibiting the sale, manufacture and import of such truncheons for other purposes is a matter of public safety. The draft order is an effective way of stopping the supply of wholly unacceptable and dangerous weapons and I ask the committee to support it.

I move,

That the Justice 2 Committee recommends that the draft Criminal Justice Act 1988 (Offensive Weapons) (Scotland) Order 2005 be approved.

Motion agreed to.

I thank the minister and his officials for attending the meeting.