Standards Committee, 12 Sep 2001

Meeting date: Wednesday, September 12, 2001

Official Report 130KB pdf

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Members' Interests Order

Agenda item 3 relates to the Scotland Act 1998 (Transitory and Transitional Provisions) (Members' Interests) Order 1999. As members will be aware, one of the major projects facing the committee is the replacement of the order with an act of the Scottish Parliament. Members will have received an issues paper, which provides an overview of some of the issues that we will wish to consider in developing proposals for replacement legislation by means of a committee bill.

The issues paper sets out some areas of the members' interests order that have proved problematic in the past two years. It also provides a flavour of the complexity of the task in front of us. I do not propose that we go through those issues now. However, we need to agree the scope of the review of the order and our approach to policy development.

The last section of the paper—paragraphs 31 to 35—sets out the issues that we need to examine if we are to consider putting replacement legislation in place by the end of the session. In particular, we need to decide how extensive our review of the existing provisions should be. Should we start from scratch and review the members' interests order in its entirety, including those provisions that have not caused any difficulty in the past two years? Should we, alternatively, focus on the aspects of the order that have been problematic, and on the recommendations of the consultative steering group, to which the committee agreed to return when we drafted the code of conduct in 1999? That seems a long time ago now.

I direct members to paragraph 35 of the issues paper and seek their views on the three bullet points that are listed in the conclusion. For the record, I will say what those points are.

The first is:

"whether the review of the members' interest order should be comprehensive or concentrate on agreed problem areas as set out in this overview."

The second is:

"the review should take account of the CSG key principles."

The third is:

"the Parliament should be aiming to strike the correct balance between disclosure in the public interest and the protection of Members' families/associates from unwarranted intrusions in their private lives."

I throw the floor open. I would like to hear what the committee feels.

As I understand it, our rules are much stricter than are those in the House of Commons. For that reason, it would be legitimate to concentrate on agreed problem areas rather than consider rewriting from scratch the whole members' interests order. To take account of the CSG principles is valid and appropriate. We should try

"to strike the correct balance between disclosure in the public interest and the protection of Members and their families … from unwarranted intrusions into their privacy".

That is a question of balance and judgment.

I agree with most of what Lord James said. It is important, if we are to review and replace parts of the members' interests order, that we do so before the next parliamentary session in 2003. The priority is that new rules are in place so that, from the beginning, new and old members understand exactly what the provisions are.

However, it would be extremely difficult to revisit the whole members' interests order and go through a huge consultation on it. We should confine ourselves to areas on which there have been concerns, consult on those and try to timetable the new provisions so that they are in place by the new session in 2003.

I ask the committee to consider paragraph 33 of the paper. The clerks have in that paragraph produced a programme of work. I run that by the committee so that we can give the clerks a steer as to what to do on the matter. If members are content with the programme or envisage problems with it, I would like to know. The programme has been written in broad-brush terms, but it will allow us to introduce a committee bill before the end of this parliamentary session in 2003.

There is a problem with the proposed stage 4, which suggests that the committee bill be introduced between October 2002 and April 2003. From that timetable, it is perfectly possible that the committee bill might be introduced in April 2003. That would not ensure that the necessary changes to the order would be made by the time the new Parliament is elected in May 2003. It is important that we tie that up. We need the new order for the new Parliament. The timetable needs to be adjusted to take account of that—if the rest of the committee agrees.

That is a good point. We need to have a target of September or October next year.

That is a valid point. My understanding is that, unlike in the House of Commons, a bill that is not completed by the time the next Scottish parliamentary election is held falls. In the House of Commons, a bill that is not completed at the end of each parliamentary year falls and the bill must be started again from scratch. If all the work on the committee bill for the members' interests order had been done, it would be a pity if it did not go through before the elections. Otherwise we would have to start the whole business from scratch again in the next session.

That point is well made.