Public Appointments and Public Bodies etc (Scotland) Act 2003 (Treatment of the Convener of the School Closure Review Panels as Specified Authority) Order 2014 [Draft]
Good morning. I welcome everyone to the 20th meeting of the Education and Culture Committee in 2014. I remind all those present that electronic devices, particularly mobile phones, should be switched off, because they interfere with the sound system.
Apologies have been received from Clare Adamson, and I welcome as her substitute Joan McAlpine. It is the second week in a row that Joan has acted as a substitute member—thank you very much for coming along. We have received a note from Liam McArthur, whose transport has been slightly disrupted, but we believe that he is on his way and will be here soon. In addition, we have received apologies from Mary Scanlon.
The first item on our agenda is evidence taking on the draft Public Appointments and Public Bodies etc (Scotland) Act 2003 (Treatment of the Convener of the School Closure Review Panels as Specified Authority) Order 2014. I welcome the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Lifelong Learning, Michael Russell, and his supporting officials from the Scottish Government. After we have taken evidence on the order, we will, of course, debate the motion in the name of the cabinet secretary. As I am sure that they are aware, officials are not permitted to participate in the formal debate.
I invite the cabinet secretary to make some opening remarks.
Thank you, convener.
The order is required in preparation for the appointment of the convener of the school closure review panels. At present, school closure proposals that have been called in are determined by the Scottish ministers under section 16 of the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010. Amendments to that act that were made by the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 will change that process by referring school closure proposals that are called in by the Scottish ministers to the convener of the school closure review panels.
The convener is a public appointment. One of their key roles will be to appoint a pool of people to be panel members and to select three members to form a school closure review panel to determine each case that is referred to the convener. Although other amendments to the Schools (Consultation) (Scotland) Act 2010 came into force on 1 August 2014, the provisions to establish the functions of the convener of the school closure review panels and the panels themselves are not due to be brought into force until March 2015, as they require more preparation in relation to appointments and the training of panel members.
It is desirable for the order under discussion to come into force before the process of appointing the convener begins, so that the appointment process is regulated by the Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland and so that the process can comply with the code of practice that is prepared and published by the commissioner under section 2 of the Public Appointments and Public Bodies etc (Scotland) Act 2003.
Regulations making provision for or about eligibility for and disqualification from appointment as convener and as panel members, their tenure, removal from office and the payment of salary, fees and allowances under paragraphs 1(9) and 2(5) of new schedule 2A to the 2010 act are to be made and laid in Parliament in early October 2014, prior to the date of publication of the advertisement for the convener’s post, with a commencement order being laid in Parliament in November 2014 that would commence the relevant provisions in the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 on the appointment of the convener and panels, as well as various other provisions, in January 2015. We aim to complete the appointments process and the necessary training and preparation to allow the convener and the school closure review panels to be in place and take up their functions from March 2015.
Thank you very much, cabinet secretary.
Do members have any questions?
Good morning, cabinet secretary.
What will happen if you do not like the decision that is made by the review panel?
It will be a decision that is final. That is why we have the order. There are many things in the world that people do not like. There is a legal process, and the legal process that we are putting in place will lead to a proper and, I think, justifiable set of decisions that will be taken in the most transparent manner possible.
As no other member wishes to ask any questions, we will move on to the formal debate on the draft order, which is item 2. I invite the cabinet secretary to speak to and move the motion.
I think that I have made as much of the matter as I possibly can in giving members the detail that I have given.
I move,
That the Education and Culture Committee recommends that the Public Appointments and Public Bodies etc. (Scotland) Act 2003 (Treatment of the Convener of the School Closure Review Panels as Specified Authority) Order 2014 [draft] be approved.
Members have no contributions to make. I do not suppose that the cabinet secretary wants to respond to that.
I am not even tempted.
Motion agreed to.
Thank you, cabinet secretary. I know that you will stay with us, but is there a change in your officials for the next item?
There is. I was just wondering whether Janet Gardner’s journey was strictly necessary, but I am very glad that she was here. Can we change the officials?
I will suspend the meeting briefly while the officials change.
10:05 Meeting suspended.Lanarkshire Colleges Order 2014 [Draft]
Our next agenda item is to take evidence on the draft Lanarkshire Colleges Order 2014. I thank the cabinet secretary for his continued presence and welcome the officials for the item.
Again, after we have taken evidence from the cabinet secretary, we will have a debate on the motion in his name. I again confirm that officials will not be permitted to contribute to the formal debate.
I welcome Liam McArthur to the meeting. I know that his transport rather held him up, but I am glad that he has made it.
I invite the cabinet secretary to make some opening remarks.
The draft order is one of a series of orders that put in place the new regional structure for colleges as part of the implementation of the Post-16 Education (Scotland) Act 2013. The new structure will support colleges to be more responsive to the needs of learners and employers in improving the life chances of our young people, supporting Scotland’s economic ambitions and creating a more sustainable and secure system.
As the committee is aware, there are 13 college regions, each of which is to have a single body that is responsible for regional outcomes. Orders have already been made for 12 of those. The draft Lanarkshire Colleges Order 2014 will put in place arrangements for Lanarkshire, which is the final college region.
Lanarkshire is one of only three regions with more than one college. In each of those regions, a regional strategic body will plan and distribute funding on a regional basis.
The order will mean that Lanarkshire will be unique in having a regional strategic body that is a college: New College Lanarkshire. Having listened carefully to the sector, I am persuaded that that arrangement will best deliver for learners and businesses in Lanarkshire. That is the regional structure that both colleges in the region want. It is not my solution; it is their solution, but it is one that I am pleased to endorse. It is a Lanarkshire solution made in Lanarkshire.
In addition to making New College Lanarkshire the regional strategic body, the order does a number of things that flow from that. It assigns the other college in the region—South Lanarkshire College—to the regional strategic body. Speaking of South Lanarkshire College, I look forward to cutting the first sod for its new state-of-the-art £2.1 million teaching block later this month. That is the latest in a long line of investments that we have made in the college estate and in Lanarkshire.
The order will make New College Lanarkshire a regional college. Being both a regional strategic body and a regional college means that it will have regional functions in relation to the two colleges in the region.
The order will broaden the membership of the board of New College Lanarkshire to include members from South Lanarkshire College in recognition of its new responsibilities.
Finally, the order will remove from legislation the entry on the regional board for Lanarkshire colleges. That body has not, of course, come into being.
I mentioned earlier that I had been persuaded of the case for New College Lanarkshire taking on regional responsibilities. Let me touch on how my thinking has evolved as the plans have changed, as a result of changed circumstances, on delivering the structure that the colleges in the region want.
Initially, we planned to establish a regional board. That is a particular type of regional strategic body that is a stand-alone organisation. When the Post-16 Education (Scotland) Bill was introduced, there were to be four colleges in the region. When it was passed, there were to be three. However, by the time it came round to consulting on assigning colleges, there were to be only two.
Given those changes, it would have been remiss not to consult on whether a regional board remained the optimal structure for the region. After careful deliberation, the colleges in the region ultimately recommended making New College Lanarkshire a regional strategic body instead.
I put on record my appreciation for the work of all concerned in the two colleges and beyond, including and especially the region’s presumptive chair, the patient and tireless Linda McTavish, in developing the plans for Lanarkshire—plans that avoid creating a new stand-alone public body. The arrangements require close partnership working with New College Lanarkshire and South Lanarkshire College and call on Stewart McKillop, the principal of South Lanarkshire College, and Martin McGuire, the principal of New College Lanarkshire, to work particularly closely together. I am sure that they will, because the plans are very much the product of their thinking and co-operation, and I have every confidence in the colleges and the principals.
I am pleased to answer the committee’s questions.
Thank you, cabinet secretary. Before I ask members for their questions, I want to raise one point. Paragraph 11 of the policy note to the order talks about ministers making “a separate Order” and seems to suggest that
“South Lanarkshire College will remain eligible in principle for funding from the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council”
until the council is satisfied that the new arrangements are working well. I am not aware of that having happened elsewhere. Can you give us some background to why that arrangement has been put in place?
There can be only one fundable body in a region: the regional strategic body. In this case, there will be two fundable bodies; we want to move to one, but it is right to do so once we have ensured that the funding arrangement is working well.
At the heart of this is a new structure that requires the money to be routed through the new regional college to another college. Both principals are quite confident about that, as are we all. However, the Scottish Further and Higher Education Funding Council needs, by law, to know that the arrangement is working well. We will bring forward a proposal to remove South Lanarkshire College as a fundable body, but we want to be assured—and the funding council needs to be assured—that things are working properly. That is why we are putting this arrangement in place.
Paragraph 17 of the policy note says:
“Overall no consensus emerged from the consultation about the type of regional strategic body in Lanarkshire.”
What issues were highlighted in the consultation, and what was the pattern of responses that you got that suggested that there was no overall consensus?
Colin Baird will answer that question.
When the colleges were considering the proposal, they needed more time to understand the implications of New College Lanarkshire being the regional strategic body instead of there being a regional body. The colleges identified issues such as conflicts of interest that might arise as a result of New College Lanarkshire’s dual function and other such matters—indeed, South Lanarkshire College expressed such concerns in its response to the consultation—and the colleges worked through those issues to deliver the proposal in the draft order.
As members have no more questions, we will move to agenda item 4, which is the formal debate on the order. I invite the cabinet secretary to speak to and move the motion,
I want very briefly to quote the two principals involved, who deserve to be quoted on this matter. Martin McGuire has said:
“I support the proposed governance model for Lanarkshire and believe it will provide a more streamlined, cost effective arrangement that will remove unnecessary bureaucracy whilst improving effectiveness.”
Stewart McKillop, the principal of South Lanarkshire College, has said:
“South Lanarkshire ... is supportive of the proposed structure to deliver college provision across The Lanarkshire Region ... These arrangements will deliver the best possible educational outcomes for the students within the region.”
Mr McKillop also comments that, with regard to my commitment to not forcing a merger, he felt that I had “been true to” my word.
This solution has been developed by the colleges, which, as Colin Baird has said, worked through the issues very thoroughly. I commend that work, and I am very pleased to move the motion.
I move,
That the Education and Culture Committee recommends that the Lanarkshire Colleges Order 2014 [draft] be approved.
Motion agreed to.
I thank the cabinet secretary and his officials for their attendance, and I briefly suspend the meeting.
10:14 Meeting suspended.Previous
Attendance