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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 May 2025
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Displaying 778 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

A lot of the evidence that we received on compliance—certainly some of it—was anecdotal. Last week, I asked Elaine Lorimer from Revenue Scotland:

“Do you have any estimates of the current cost of non-compliance?”

She replied:

“When you say ‘cost’, do you mean revenue loss?”

I said:

“Yes.”

She said:

“I am sorry. I am not able to provide you with that.”—[Official Report, Finance and Public Administration Committee, 12 March 2024, c 38.]

Even Revenue Scotland is not sure about the estimated cost of lack of compliance at the moment. Given the importance that you and Revenue Scotland seem to be assigning to that issue, is it not concerning that there are no real estimates of the costs of non-compliance?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I suppose that the objective for the tax is that revenue from it will reduce, because, if the Scottish Government’s broader policy objective is to increase recycling, the amount of tax paid on unrecycled raw products will, you hope, reduce.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

A lot of the points that I was going to ask about have already been covered by the convener and by Michelle Thomson, but I want to summarise some of the points that you have made, minister, and to discuss some of the evidence that we took last week.

I will start with a bit of a daft-laddie question. Is there any statutory requirement to take the bill through now? I know that it comes under the Smith commission and the Scotland Act 2016, but is there a statutory requirement to pass it now?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I will pass back to the convener, because he probably has more questions to ask, but I will say that I do not see a huge amount that is advantageous in this legislation unless the rate is changed. I am not suggesting that I would advocate that, but it seems to me that, unless that differential is used, the administrative and other issues are not of great benefit.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

The lack of data, which we all appreciate but do not necessarily lay at anybody’s door in particular, has already been pointed out. There are also the costs of setting up the bill, and there is uncertainty over how it will impact on the block grant adjustment. It is likely that the bill will cost money from the Scottish budget. Why take the bill through now, when all those uncertainties are there?

10:30  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I think that I will leave it there. [Laughter.]

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Do you have any estimates of the current cost of non-compliance?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

That would make it harder to replace a UK aggregates levy, of which Scotland gets a share. Through the new legislation, the money will be raised in Scotland, but it will be reflected in the budget. How can we be sure that the bill will be of any real benefit, unless there is a difference in the amount that is raised? A higher rate in Scotland than in England would have implications for Scottish businesses.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

However, a destination country might have its own levy.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Generally, would the bill have any real benefit unless there is a variation in the rate, which would be aimed at raising more tax, or would be done for environmental or recycling reasons?