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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 July 2025
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Displaying 5898 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Climate and Nature Emergencies

Meeting date: 8 December 2021

Finlay Carson

That is fine. Pat Snowdon would like to come in.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Climate and Nature Emergencies

Meeting date: 8 December 2021

Finlay Carson

I am sorry, but Jim Fairlie wants to intervene.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Climate and Nature Emergencies

Meeting date: 8 December 2021

Finlay Carson

I have a supplementary question. Traditionally, and at the moment, farmers are carbon farmers, nature farmers, food farmers, cultural farmers, soil farmers and tech farmers all at the same time—they have to have regard to all those matters. Some pay more regard to food production than to nature; for others, it is the other way round. In the future, will that broad spectrum of responsibilities be spread as they are now, with farmers taking responsibility, to varying degrees, for all aspects of land management, or will regional land use partnerships and so on specify areas that should focus on food production or on protecting crested newts, for example? How do you see everything coming together to deliver the biodiversity and climate change recovery that we need?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Climate and Nature Emergencies

Meeting date: 8 December 2021

Finlay Carson

Over the past few weeks, the damage that has been done by storms has been very clear. Thousands of hectares of trees have been flattened. Some argue that those trees have been planted in the wrong place—for example, on good farmland.

How should we properly account for natural capital, given that we are seeing what is potentially a bit of a land grab, in that, in order to do a bit of greenwashing, big commercial companies are buying land, some of which is of very high value in terms of agricultural production, and planting trees? Do we need to rapidly have a baseline and look again at how we classify land to ensure that some of our best agricultural land is not turned into forestry? Is that part of what we need to do to assess our natural capital?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Climate and Nature Emergencies

Meeting date: 8 December 2021

Finlay Carson

You talk about not pausing, but we are already seeing extortionate prices for agricultural land that would normally be passed on to the next generation of farmers or new entrants—it is being snapped up for planting. We have also heard about wind farms potentially being put on peatland. You say that we should not pause, but do we need to do more work to ensure that we do not go too far down the road and then have 25,000 hectares of inappropriate planting of Sitka spruce and so on? Maybe “pause” is not the right word, but do we need to go back and ensure that we are doing the right thing?

Dr Snowdon, we often hear the phrase “the right tree in the right place”. How is Scottish Forestry ensuring that we are doing far more than that and looking at the long-term consequences of actions that we take now?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Climate and Nature Emergencies

Meeting date: 8 December 2021

Finlay Carson

Thank you. Jim Fairlie has a supplementary question.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Climate and Nature Emergencies

Meeting date: 8 December 2021

Finlay Carson

I call Jenni Minto.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Climate and Nature Emergencies

Meeting date: 8 December 2021

Finlay Carson

That brings us to the end of the session. I thank Professor Sir Dieter Helm for his thought-provoking answers and for giving us his valuable time. His contribution is very much appreciated. I am pleased that we ended on that optimistic call for action.

We will suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of panellists.

10:34 Meeting suspended.  

10:45 On resuming—  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Climate and Nature Emergencies

Meeting date: 8 December 2021

Finlay Carson

Perhaps Ian Dickie might like to comment.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Climate and Nature Emergencies

Meeting date: 8 December 2021

Finlay Carson

I get the feeling that investors are treading water at the moment. There is a bit of a pause. It is not entirely clear where money should be invested to get the best return for climate change and biodiversity. Professor Helm said that we need to base some of our work on river catchments. and non-native invasive species play a role in that consideration.

Ian Dickie has done a lot of work on the state of natural capital in the Borders. That involves baselining a range of things including woodland creation, habitat creation, flood management and farmland management. Do we need to do that across the country before we know where we should invest?

There has been a fairly critical report from the Climate Change Committee that suggests that there is no detail of the policies that underpin the Scottish Government’s ambitions to reach net zero by 2045. That is also creating uncertainty. Does the Government need to do some baselining and put some meat on the bones of the policies before we invest in the right areas?

11:45