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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 August 2025
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Displaying 5898 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

That is not what you suggested in response to Mercedes Villalba. You suggested that a driven shoot would come under the bill in a different way from a rough shoot. Maybe I misunderstood.

10:45  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

That flies in the face of what the minister has said. If there are four people with eight dogs, does that mean that each of the four guns must shoot only the animals that two dogs have flushed? There could be eight dogs with four handlers and two shooters. Does that make it illegal? From what you have suggested, it would. If that is the case, that would make rough shooting illegal because that is what happens in most cases.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Petition

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

It is my understanding that the commission will come to a decision by next February. Initially, I was disappointed with the lack of progress by the commission, given that we had written on two occasions to get a response. However, the response might well give us reassurance that it is taking the issue seriously and will consider all the options and consequences of an outright ban or a licensing scheme. I think that waiting until February would certainly give us the information that we need to take the matter further.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

On that basis, is it intended through the bill to ultimately or effectively ban or prevent rough shooting, as you have described it?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

What other activity?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

But you just said that it was quite clear whether dogs were hunting individually or as a pack and that that was the basis for people not to be prosecuted.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

In your evidence, did you come across any cases in which people were rough shooting and they had fewer than two dogs?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

When they were rough shooting.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Thank you. That concludes this session. We very much appreciate your time—the additional session will certainly help us as we go forward to stages 2 and 3.

I briefly suspend the meeting until 11:15, to allow the witnesses to leave.

11:12 Meeting suspended.  

11:18 On resuming—  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

At stage 1, the bill was voted through unanimously on the basis that it aims to improve animal welfare while continuing to allow dogs to be used to control predators. Throughout the weeks and the months of evidence taking, not once did we hear any issues about animal welfare and rough shooting—I believe that not one piece of evidence on that came before the committee.

I think that there is an unintended consequence of including rabbits in the definition of wild mammal, which is a knock-on effect on rough shooting. Given the response to our additional call for evidence, there are concerns that section 6 does not fit the bill, either for those who wish to continue rough shooting or for those who wish any sort of country sports to be stopped. It does neither and could potentially open a loophole.

Has the bill team considered possible amendments that would address those concerns? That might involve a better definition of rough shooting and excluding it. Alternatively, have you considered other measures that would clear up what looks like a bit of a boorach at the moment?