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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 July 2025
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Displaying 5898 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Finlay Carson

That concludes consideration of the instrument, and I thank the minister for attending today’s meeting.

I suspend the meeting for 10 minutes, to allow a changeover of witnesses.

09:58 Meeting suspended.  

10:06 On resuming—  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Finlay Carson

Welcome back. The next item on the agenda is further evidence on the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill. Our first panel of witnesses represents public bodies that will be tasked with helping the Scottish ministers to achieve the targets set in part 1 of the bill or that have a role in the environmental impact assessments or habitats regulations that are covered by part 2 of the bill.

I welcome Mercedes Villalba MSP to this session. I also welcome Annie Breaden from Crown Estate Scotland, Brendan Callaghan from Scottish Forestry, Alex Flucker from the Scottish Environment Protection Agency, Dr Katherine Leys from NatureScot and Dr Chris Tuckett from the Joint Nature Conservation Committee. We have allocated about 90 minutes for the discussion. There are quite a few questions to go through, so I ask for succinct questions and answers. You will not need to operate your microphones, as we have a gentleman here who will do it for you.

I will kick off with a nice, straightforward question. Scotland has consistently failed to meet its biodiversity targets or halt nature decline. Why do you think that statutory biodiversity targets can make a difference and have an impact on that decline?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Finlay Carson

How might that fit in? We hear that the forestry sector is continually having to review its practice, and the approach is never particularly long term. You talked about the UK forestry standard, which is reviewed regularly. The Scottish Government might come in to give targets for ecosystem health, or national parks might come in and tell the sector that it needs to achieve X, Y and Z.

Does the bill give you comfort that you might have a more stable target that aims to be achieved over a longer period than five years, which is what the period looks like under the UK forestry standard? Will that give your industry issues with planning for the future or make that easier?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Finlay Carson

In that case, we may need to consider amendments that ensure that we avoid those unintended consequences.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Finlay Carson

Crown Estate Scotland could probably kick off on that.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Finlay Carson

Annie, what happens to the reports that the Crown Estate produces? What actions are carried out on the back of them? Will that change when the bill is enacted?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Finlay Carson

We will now hear from a second panel on the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill. I welcome to the meeting Alan Hunt and Neil Langhorn from Environmental Standards Scotland. Thank you for your patience this morning. We have up to 45 minutes for this session. You do not need to operate the mics—that will be done for you.

I will kick off with a quick question. ESS has been given a new function in the bill as an independent review body. How will that role complement and interact with your existing functions as an environmental watchdog?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Finlay Carson

Okay. Thank you. That brings us quite tidily to the next question, which will be asked by Beatrice Wishart.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Finlay Carson

That leads us nicely to a question from Beatrice Wishart.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Finlay Carson

That is the problem. The bill is potentially giving a huge power to create more flexibility in areas where we are not sure that flexibility is required. I do not want to put words into Rhoda Grant’s mouth, but what flexibility do you have currently and how do you use it? Also, are there areas in which you do not have, but might want, flexibility? I think that, up to now, the only example that we have had from ministers has been to do with the Government’s ability to use digitised rather than paper documents. That is the only example that we have had from the bill team. What flexibility do you have at the moment, and what flexibility do you not have that you think this overarching power could deliver to deal with things that exist now, not something that might or might not occur in the future?