Chamber and committees

As a former clinical educator, I like the national pathways model of skills development and the ability to look at how we measure the quality of care that is delivered so that we can ensure that it is the same whether the person is in Stranraer or Stornoway. I am interested in your thoughts on establishing recognised national career pathways so that we can focus on recruitment and retention and ensure that the career development process helps us to focus on valuing the staff and the care that they are providing. Can you give us your thoughts on that?

Yes. What I wanted to ask about has mostly been covered already, but I will just say to Eddie that, every time you come to committee and give us information, no matter what your role is at that point or what hat you have got on, your knowledge and everything just demonstrates what an asset you are, and I want to say thank you.

Obviously, Dumfries and Galloway has issues as a rural area. I love the idea of electric cars—I am pursuing that already with Dumfries and Galloway Council. I think that that is absolutely the way we need to go, especially with petrol being so expensive.

I am thinking about the other aspects around social care, such as delayed discharge, and you have been able to tackle that in your area, too. I am also thinking about recruitment and retention. It is not just about encouraging young folk to go to school and college; it is also about the fact that social care is delivered mostly by women, the average age of those carers is about 50, and most of them have other caring roles and responsibilities. The papers from the previous panel of witnesses raised the issue that people who are providing care might also be caring for their parents or their kids. There are challenges with regard to recruitment and retention, so what are your thoughts about the fact that some local authorities pay a lot less than others do? Fair approaches to recruitment, retention and remuneration are, therefore, part of what we need to consider—including with Paul Kelly, I suppose.

The bill talks about the charter being reviewed every five years. Is that enough time, or should the period be longer? Indeed, should it be shorter?

I mean before the bill was published. Did COSLA engage with the Government before the bill was published?

Okay.

I am keen to pursue the matter of centralisation. To me, it is about creating standards. We just had a care home close in Dumfries and Galloway, and during the pandemic NHS teams had to go into a couple of care homes because there were issues related to infection control. It is about knowledge, skills and taking a standardised approach; for example, staff not wearing personal protective equipment unless they are engaging in patient care. For me, a standardised approach is about fair wages and the level of skills for a certain band in the local authority. No matter where a person is in Scotland, there should be a standardised approach for development of knowledge and skills. Is not that part of what would be centralised, with local delivery then being based on the standards that are set across the whole of Scotland?

Good morning, everybody. On the back of the human rights questions and aspects, chapter 3 of the bill, which I have in front of me, talks about the creation of a national care service charter. I am interested to hear your thoughts about what the charter should contain. For example, should we link it to the principles in chapter 1, which talk about promoting dignity and advancing equality and non-discrimination? That question goes first to Isla Davie, because she is looking right at me.

I am trying to get my head around what Dr Gulhane said about the roll-out of vaccines being a “disaster” in rural areas, because of the central approach. That was not my experience; I was a vaccinator in Dumfries and Galloway and the roll-out was fabulous.

With regard to the issue that everybody has raised about centralised versus local accountability, although ministers will have accountability, the delivery of care should happen locally, because different aspects affect rural, urban and island communities. Is that not what this bill needs to deliver?

This is mentioned in our papers, too, but I have in front of me the policy memorandum to the bill, which refers to the issue of housing that Eddie Fraser talked about earlier. It says that

“a fully integrated”

national care service

“would work closely with other services, such as housing, homelessness, education, the justice system, and the Scottish Prison Service to ensure everyone has seamless access to the support they need.”

I am hearing the concerns that are being expressed locally in Dumfries and Galloway, and I have met Shetland Islands Council leaders who have said to me, “Dinnae mess with this, because what we have in Shetland is working.”

Do we not want to learn from what is working in other places, and from the integration of health and social care and the better services that people have achieved there, and pick up on that in the co-design work to ensure that we engage everybody and bring in housing and everything else that I listed? Is that not the whole point of the bill? Is it not framework legislation that we can say okay to and then work together to tease out the detail?

I am thinking about the principles of fair work, employment and supporting people into career pathways and routes in a way that supports them as well as the people for whom they are providing care. How do we ensure, in the text of the bill, that those principles can be applied across the whole of Scotland?

I know that it is still early days, but I am thinking about, say, compensation for travel, support for education and aspects of employment—for example, whether someone is employed by one care provider or another. Those issues arise when we get down to the detail of how we support people to be carers, whether in a care home or through care at home. Does the bill have enough detail on that?

Thank you.