Chamber and committees

What do you envision Food Standards Scotland’s role to be in helping to support the implementation of the good food nation legislation?

Good morning. We have reviewed information on the suspension of visiting, which was raised in various written submissions. The submission from Dumfries and Galloway health and social care partnership questioned who actually makes the decision to suspend visits and how that aligns with health protection and social work responsibilities. Can you elaborate on how you will ensure consistency in decisions to suspend visiting?

The suspension of visits arose because of the Covid pandemic. That was an international health crisis, as opposed to a local issue, such as a norovirus outbreak, for which different measures would be put in place for visiting, including a requirement for personal protective equipment to be used. I suppose that it is not an isolated decision; it must be made collaboratively, in recognition of what is going on across the country.

As part of all of that, we need to make sure that people are not living in food deserts where they do not have access to food that they can cook quickly and easily. It all intermingles with the cost of living crisis, when it also costs money to turn on the gas burner and cook a meal and all of that. For me, part of the good food nation plan—this is the first plan—is about starting to raise awareness and work together to look at what we can do to shift and address issues such as childhood obesity.

Aye, sure, if we are already there. I am glad that these witnesses are here today, because I have a great interest in this subject. I have previously raised issues about the Nova classification and Carlos Monteiro’s work in São Paulo in Brazil in relation to how we define ultra-high-processed food, or ultra-processed food, as it is more commonly known. When that work was done—in, I think, 2019—the evidence included that reducing salt, fat and sugar was the way to go, because ultra-high-processed food contains high fat, sugar and salt.

I would be interested in hearing about any recent evidence that supports or refutes the findings of the Nova classification and about what more can be done. I know that there is on-going research, because Nova has been criticised.

Geoff Ogle, on the issue of high fat, sugar and salt, are you aware of current research to look at the chemicals that are added—for example, stabilisers, emulsifiers, flavourings and colourings—and how those affect people physically and mentally?

I talk about being satiated or not. Some food additives switch off the brain’s ability to say, “I’m full—I’m done.” People have proposed that some of the chemicals that are added affect our ability to feel satiated.

I will move on to the recommendation to reduce the consumption of red meat and dairy in the Scottish diet. When I looked further, I found that the recommendation was not just to reduce red meat but to reduce red and processed meat—we need to remember that.

I come from a dairy and meat-producing region. The recommendation is to reduce the consumption of red and processed meat to no more than 70g every day, and I believe that two thirds of people in Scotland already do that. We heard about that in the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee when we took evidence on the good food nation plan and the climate change plan. That means that a third of people are consuming more than 70g, but we need to remember that two thirds of Scottish people are consuming less than 70g.

What advice have you given the Government about the recommendation in relation to 70g of red and processed meat, as well as a reduction in dairy? Some kids out there wouldnae get the calcium or micronutrients that they need if they did not have half a pint of milk each day. That is my concern, given that we live in a world with food banks.

Engagement is required between all the professionals involved, including Public Health Scotland, local authorities and health and social care partnerships, but what is required in that engagement? Is there a formal requirement for a process that will outline how they come to a decision?

On the issues that have been raised already in relation to reoffending, although prison sentences will always be required, evidence shows that community-based sentences reduce reoffending and relieve the pressures on prison populations, including at HMP Dumfries, as well as addressing the cost of prisons to the public purse. Does the cabinet secretary have any comparative figures for retaining someone in the prison population as opposed to giving them a community-based sentence?

On the issues that have been raised already in relation to reoffending, although prison sentences will always be required, evidence shows that community-based sentences reduce reoffending and relieve the pressures on prison populations, including at HMP Dumfries, as well as addressing the cost of prisons to the public purse. Does the cabinet secretary have any comparative figures for retaining someone in the prison population as opposed to giving them a community-based sentence?