Chamber and committees

We now have a minister who has a combined portfolio that includes drugs and alcohol, and minimum unit pricing is not the only action that is being taken as a public health approach. You mentioned the Non-Communicable Disease Alliance. I took part in creating its report regarding NCDs.

I will be quick because a lot of information has been covered already. In our previous evidence session, the witnesses talked a lot about whole-system approaches to the budget. We know that we need to tackle poverty and health inequalities and the impact of housing on those—there are loads of umbrellas that are needed to support the improvement of the health of the people of Scotland. I am interested in public health and preventative approaches. I am interested in the ability to have a good healthy diet, for example. I am interested in the work of Henry Dimbleby and Chris van Tulleken, as well as Professor Pekka Puska’s work to improve diet to reduce cardiovascular disease. What work is being done to learn from other researchers who are not even in Scotland, to see how we can budget better for public health measures?

I am interested in the fact that we are taking a step back to involve people right at the beginning. Involving people with a wide range of experience does seem to be valuable.

We have heard about the support that is required right across the social care spectrum. Here I should probably remind everyone that I am a registered nurse. Over the summer, I spent time visiting the social care delivery team at Stewartry Care in Castle Douglas. Its work is varied and the people there are skilled and competent in delivering care for people in their own homes.

I am keen to ensure that people understand what the co-design process is. They might just assume that co-design and co-production are the same thing, but they are not. Did that point about there being co-design and not co-production come out in the consultation process?

There is a lot of information from the six reports on the Government’s website, and they are available in an accessible format. The reports are pretty comprehensive. I will probably need to read them in more detail, but I appreciate that.

Just to go back a bit, I recommend that people look at the Government’s website. There is comprehensive information on the national care service, with all the reports and information on the engagements over the summer and the work that has been done to connect locally. It is great that Stranraer was one of the places involved, because folk fae Stranraer always feel forgotten.

How does the Government get the message out that people should look at what is on the Government’s website to find out about the power of work that has been done over the summer? What is the best way to share that information?

The Institute for Fiscal Studies has published an interesting report on short-term, medium-term and long-term planning. It focuses on the fact that the Scottish Government’s health budget depends on Barnett consequentials, so it is determined by the UK Government. If we do not know what is coming from the UK Government, does that pose challenges in determining what needs to be incorporated into preventative health planning or acute planning?

Good morning. I am interested in the co-design process. I know that regional events on that took place over the summer, at which you focused on rural as well as urban issues. For example, in my area such events were held in Stranraer and Hawick. I would be interested to hear a little more information about the co-design process and whether it was different from other processes that had taken place previously.

I have a quick supplementary question. Since minimum unit pricing was introduced, we have also had a pandemic. We have heard that, during the pandemic and during lockdown, there were changes in people’s consumption of alcohol. Some folk who drank a lot drank even more, and some folk who drank less drank even less. What are your thoughts on how the pandemic has affected alcohol consumption? Has that skewed any of the minimum unit pricing information that has been brought forward?

I welcome the stage 1 debate. I wish Oliver Mundell a swift recovery and I hope that he feels better soon. I also thank the DPLR Committee, the clerks and all others for their input so far.

Scots trust law is widely considered to be out of date, and the main legislation is now just over a century old—it dates back to 1921. Trust law is widely understood, including by the legal profession, to be complex, difficult to understand, cumbersome and opaque. Therefore, I welcome the fact that the bill will simplify trust legislation, making the process easier, simpler and more accessible—which members have already talked about—for all who are involved.

The bill will bring the current legislation into the 21st century. In a modern society, trusts are used as solutions in an incredibly wide variety of situations. They are used extensively by charities and pension funds, as others have mentioned, in commercial transactions to set funds aside to deal with future liabilities, and in individual estate planning.

Trusts are also used to protect and administer assets on behalf of vulnerable people such as children and adults with incapacity and disabilities. As I know through my casework, trusts are also important to look after community assets and funds, as well as for matters that might not automatically spring to mind. For instance, one of my constituents told me about the importance of the bill for her—she and her husband use a trust to secure financial assets for their child, who is in the custodial estate. That relates to Keith Brown’s point about vulnerable people.

Trusts are, indeed, hugely important, but the state of trust law in Scotland at present is inaccessible and off-putting. People who have had experience of those difficulties are reluctant to create new trusts, even if a trust represents the best option to provide the flexibility and protection that they seek. As reported by the Law Society of Scotland, that inertia around trusts in Scotland is putting Scotland at a disadvantage, in contrast to other European nations and other parts of the UK.

The Scottish Law Commission, the Law Society of Scotland and practitioners have commented on all those issues throughout the various consultations that led to the bill. Indeed, I echo the comments of Lady Paton of the inner house of the Court Session, who said:

“There will be considerable rejoicing and relief amongst the legal community who deal with clients and find the 100-year-old law a major handicap.”

Therefore, we are moving in the right direction with the bill.

As a healthcare professional and a member of the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, I am particularly interested in the provisions of the bill in relation to incapacity. Under section 3 of the 1921 act, all trusts are held to include a provision that decisions must be made by quorum, which is defined as

“a majority of the trustees accepting and surviving”.

However, that does not include incapax trustees. That can lead to issues where trust decisions cannot be made if a majority cannot be achieved. The bill addresses that, and a definition of “incapable” is included in the bill at section 75. It closely reflects the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Act 2000, which refers to whether a person is capable of making, communicating, understanding and

“retaining the memory of decisions”.

In addition, section 12 of the bill states that trustees’ decisions are to be made

“by a majority of those for the time being able to make”

them, and that

“a trustee is not to be regarded as able to make a decision who ... is incapable”.

That therefore means that capacity can be determined on a decision-specific basis, allowing incapax trustees to continue as trustees and to participate where appropriate without hindering the administration of the trust.

I appreciate the minister’s comments regarding incapacity and the commitment to look further at the issue of capacity or incapacity to prevent abuse.

The bill will improve Scots law in relation to trusts, and I urge members to support it at decision time.

Last week, I spoke at a conference at Our Dynamic Earth to discuss the importance of using anaerobic digestion to produce clean energy, which agriculture has huge potential to achieve. Given that the Scottish Government has committed to exploring increasing energy output from such innovations, will the minister comment on how that will be achieved and whether she will work with our agriculture sector to fulfil that huge potential for clean energy?