Skip to main content
Loading…

Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Filter your results Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 July 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 1957 contributions

|

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Rachael Hamilton

You were, but I am trying to debate the points that you made earlier by using that idea as a link.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I welcome amendment 131, which is intended to provide clarity. However, I have received some feedback from stakeholders that the definitions that are referenced in the amendment could be clearer. I would like an assurance that what would and would not constitute an offence under the bill will be made clearer. I am happy to work with Liam Kerr if he will consider lodging a stronger amendment with clearer definitions at stage 3. At this stage, I am minded not to vote with Liam Kerr on his amendment.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Will the member take an intervention?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Yes, but specifically.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Rachael Hamilton

This morning, we received a letter from the minister. As it was, regrettably, received very late, I have not had the opportunity to fully absorb it. However, it addresses what will happen with regard to the licensing and what NatureScot will do to engage with stakeholders.

It says that

“NatureScot is committed to a ‘shared wildlife management principles’ approach to stakeholder engagement.”

It does not sound as though Colin Smyth accepts that NatureScot is committed to those principles. He seems to want to go further, albeit that we all know that the intention of the bill is to maintain the highest standards of animal welfare. What do Labour members not appreciate about the shared wildlife management principles?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I know that you will not accept another intervention, but I did want to ask whether you think that a rat is a sentient being.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Yes.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Rachael Hamilton

With regard to those amendments, BASC, the Kennel Club and Scotland’s Regional Moorland Groups have all highlighted the bill’s unintended consequences for field trials. Gun dog trials test the working ability of such dogs in competitive conditions and follow strict regulations set out by the Kennel Club, a well-respected organisation that puts a large amount of resource into developing robust and rigorous guidance on the safe, lawful and humane operation of field trials. That is reflected in these amendments.

Similar to amendment 142, amendment 143, alongside its consequential amendments in my name, allows for field trials to continue unhindered and, for those who partake, confidence that they can carry out that activity unhindered. In response to a recent parliamentary question, the minister confirmed:

“Field trials which only involve the hunting of birds are not covered by the provisions of this Bill.

For field trials that involve the use of dogs to hunt wild mammals the participants will have to abide by the provisions of the Bill.”—[Written Answers, 10 November 2022; S6W-11800.]

However, we know that gun dogs are used to flush wild mammals during field trials, with the dogs not chasing or killing them. As with rough shooting, therefore, an exception would be required. Again, I would be grateful if the minister could put on record whether field trials fall under the bill’s scope and, if not, whether she and committee members would support my amendment for an exception to allow this legitimate activity to proceed lawfully and unhindered.

On amendment 227, the minister has stated that she is unwilling to pursue an exception for rough shooting, despite my clearly setting out the various parameters ensuring that an exception would not or could not be used as a loophole for other illegal activity. I therefore direct members’ attention to amendment 227, which recognises that, during a rough shoot,

“more than two dogs ... are not working simultaneously”

and

“more than two dogs ... do not work together in a pack or in formation.”

I reiterate that, as has been made clear by rural organisations and others, there is no intention during a rough shoot for dogs to form a pack, unlike with other activities. One person uses their own dog or two dogs to flush their own quarry, working in proximity to others, but they do not allow their dogs to form a pack. An exception specifically for rough shooting must be sought for that legitimate activity to continue. It should not be licensed, as that is neither a practical option nor the intention of this bill; as a result, an exception or other mechanism to allow rough shooting to continue unhindered must be considered. I welcome the thoughts of MSPs and the minister on that.

On amendment 228, the wording used in section 6(3) is highly emotive, and the amendment would replace it with neutral language that rural stakeholders feel to be more appropriate. I would add that the objective is to kill the wild mammal for purposes set out in the bill, not simply for it to be “attacked”. The term “kill” is used throughout the rest of section 6, and the amendment would ensure drafting consistency.

Thank you for your forbearance, convener.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Rachael Hamilton

For the record, am I correct in thinking that field trials fall under the scope of the bill?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 7 December 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Will the minister take an intervention on that point?