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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 July 2025
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Displaying 825 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Oliver Mundell

To me, it is not a political issue; the concern is about Parliament having its say. You made the case for that in your comments. Politicians can spend all day talking about legislation, but most of my constituents, although they want to see delivery and want to see things work, do not have the time to go through legislation letter by letter and word by word to ensure that it works. Ultimately, if the legislation does not work, you do not get the delivery.

My big concern is that, although there might not be more framework bills, the bills that are coming down the line are on more substantive topics. Things such as agricultural funding and the national care service are complicated—the national care service exceptionally so—and a lot of secondary legislation will be needed to make those bills work. I am concerned about whether Parliament as a whole has the capacity to deal with that level of secondary legislation on what I think will be controversial topics. We have seen that issue with the regulation of legal services, too.

People have strong views on some things that are being left to secondary legislation. Will the committee have people in every week to talk about every one of those bills, which are contentious in relation to policy? Has the Government thought about how that will work?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Oliver Mundell

It is possible that two or three of those bills could arrive together, and we talked about how many SSIs are expected before the summer. There could be periods when there are real peaks in what is coming through Parliament. It is not just in this committee, but other subject committees that are looking at new legislation, as well.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Oliver Mundell

There is a balance and there is a tension. What I am asking is, do you accept that there is a tension?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Oliver Mundell

I welcome those comments on trying to get things right. I want to ask about some of the historical commitments that the Scottish Government has made. One is in relation to an amendment to the Scotland Act 1998 (Specification of Functions and Transfer of Property etc) Order 2019 (SSI 2019/183). Has there been any progress on that that you can share with the committee?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Oliver Mundell

I think that there are a few others that are outstanding.

10:15  

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Oliver Mundell

I come back to the issue of explanatory notes. I note that you said that some of it is down to the eye of the beholder, but a lot of different ministers across Government introduce a lot of different bills. I want to push you a wee bit on what is being done to ensure that there is a common understanding of what is needed in explanatory notes. We have heard that some conveners think that there is too much in explanatory notes and some too little, and the Parliament has the opportunity to say that, but there has recently been a degree of variation. I know that there is a balance to be struck, but is someone working across the Government to ensure that all bills—

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Oliver Mundell

I hear what you are saying about flexibility and that some people will always be unhappy, but do you recognise that there is a challenge when such discussions are taking place away from the Parliament? Some stakeholders worry that the people who have louder voices, who are able to lobby harder, who have more professional support, or who might be perceived to be closer to the Government politically, might have a better chance of getting what they want through that process than those stakeholders would if it went to Parliament as a whole and were subjected to the full scrutiny of primary legislation.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Oliver Mundell

Do you recognise that there is a tension there? Whether or not you think that the process works well, there is a tension.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Oliver Mundell

I take the Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill as an example. We have a Government-initiated question that sets out that 70 per cent of funding for that would go into tier 1 and 2 as direct payments. That decision has been taken by the Government before the stakeholder consultation formally begins. That is possible to do while the bill is going through, but it is not possible to get some of the other information on details that you would normally expect to see in a bill. The Government is picking and choosing which—

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Oliver Mundell

The last thing I will say on this is that you can put it in the bill while the bill is going through Parliament and retain the flexibility to change it later. That is different from not including it in the bill at all and leaving it to secondary legislation.