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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 January 2026
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Displaying 1875 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Jamie Greene

Could you explain what you mean by the following comment, which appears in bold on page 16 of your report:

“The Medium-Term Financial Strategy highlights the unsustainable financial position of the Scottish public sector”?

That is a bold and sweeping statement. What do you mean by that?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Jamie Greene

That is interesting. In other words, the way out of that hole is to spend less or raise more money. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Jamie Greene

I find any assertion that any of this is value for money beyond the pale. Clearly, £335 million for a £90 million contract is not value for money. My issue really is: what faith can any of us have—as a Public Audit Committee or as a Parliament, or you as Audit Scotland—that any projections, either timelines or financial projections for the cost completion of the project, are going to be accurate? They have never been accurate. The accountable officer has never had accurate information from day 1. There has been slippage on the dates and the costs, which started at £110 million six years ago, and became £200 million, £220 million, £300 million, then £335 million. My question is, where does it end? What faith can we have that any estimates coming out of the business are accurate and reliable?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Jamie Greene

I apologise but I think that we are short of time.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Jamie Greene

That is interesting. I go back to the point about how the Government does that. It has to make ends meet, so it cannot spend more than it has, with the exception of some capital borrowing opportunities. You also said that there is some Scotland reserve money that could be rolled over, so there is some wriggle room in being able to dip into pots of money where the Government does not have it for the balance sheet.

Going back to the point about how the Government could best resolve the situation, public sector reform is clearly one area. Making cuts is never popular for any Government. On the other important bit about raising money, is that best achieved through simple tax raising? Are there other means of growing the economy, such as increasing the tax base or improving income from other taxation due to growth in the business sector, for example?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Jamie Greene

That sounds eminently sensible, Auditor General.

Another area that I wanted to touch on, which is not in the report but is very much linked to what you have just said, is our net fiscal deficit. For the year that we are looking at in the consolidated accounts, the deficit widened to 11.7 per cent of GDP, which is more than twice the UK average of 5.1 per cent. That strikes me as a concern.

Also, public expenditure relative to GDP is 55 per cent in Scotland, while the UK average has been about 44 per cent. Those metrics seem to show that we are on slightly different tangents. I do not know whether that is good, bad or indifferent. One could argue that we spend more on public services so, of course, that will be a higher proportion of our budget, but that does not always make for better outcomes, does it?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Jamie Greene

I think that other members want to talk about the performance framework, outcomes and so on, and they are interesting areas that we will come on to cover.

Other analysis tends to suggest that Scotland has an ageing and relatively unhealthy population, and that that could present a potential risk to resource budgets in future in meeting healthcare and support needs for an ageing workforce that is not getting healthier. Has Audit Scotland undertaken any analysis on more of a medium-to-longer-term view of the Scottish public budget and whether that is a trend that we should be concerned about and, therefore, flag to Government?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2024/25 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”

Meeting date: 17 December 2025

Jamie Greene

Does public sector reform sound like cutting jobs in the public sector?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Jamie Greene

Indeed.

The total cost of the upgrade has not changed much since we last spoke about it. It is around £2.2 million. My primary concern is that you have not negotiated a price for the product, yet you are still quite confident about how much it will cost. How does that work?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Budget Proposal 2026-27

Meeting date: 11 December 2025

Jamie Greene

Does that account for your legal and professional fees jumping by a third, year on year?