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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 March 2026
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Displaying 2072 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

I will carry on with the line of questioning about the state of the finances of NHS boards. As you have already noted, a number of them have received considerable amounts of brokerage. Just for the benefit of the public out there, what exactly is brokerage and how does it work?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

While you are looking, I simply note that I am trying to get my head around the effect that that has had on the volume of teaching that is taking place.

I will come on to look specifically at courses that have been cut shortly, but I can see why there has been so much adverse reaction locally and nationally. The situation has caught the eye of not only auditors but the sector more widely. If you lose 100 staff, it sounds like you are also losing a lot of teaching. Again, in what way is that a good thing?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

I will move on. I looked at the financial sustainability project papers that were submitted, which date from April 2024, and at the courses that were cut over that period—including in the schools-college programme and FE and HE courses—and I could not get my head around why those courses were cut. Is it because you could not afford the courses due to their technicality? Was it the cost of the staff, and if you lose a member of staff who teaches that course, you obviously lose the course? Was it simply that you were struggling to recruit adequate student numbers to make the courses financially viable? That would surprise me because horticulture, skills for work, construction, accounting, software, web technologies and environmental sciences are all growth areas in the Scottish economy, but those are the areas where you are making cuts. It makes no sense to me.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

That is extremely helpful—thank you. From a constituent’s point of view, they are still sitting on a waiting list and wondering why their health board is making savings. That is the crux of my question. We know that five boards are sitting at level 3 intervention and one is at level 4. Is there any evidence that that situation will improve any time soon?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

I wish you luck.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Thank you. That sounded very positive and was very helpful.

I have read all the board minutes that have been supplied to us, particularly those from 2024, and I was a bit surprised by their tone. I could almost imagine myself in the room with some of those people—it did not seem like a happy board, in any way, shape or form. First of all, then, what is the current state of play with the board at UHI Perth? My interpretation of the board members’ input is that a lot of contrary views and opinions were being expressed on pretty much everything, even by the chair.

I refer you to the minutes of the 23 October 2024 board meeting. A couple of things struck me about them, the first of which was a quote from the chair that I will ask for your opinion on in a moment. The minutes say:

“Chair ... noted that the College makes money from FE and loses in HE, but there is no breakdown of these figures”,

so the provenance of that conclusion and how it was reached is unclear. The chair then asked:

“if the College are not making money from HE why are we doing it?”

That is my question to you today.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

In your view, and without revisiting any of the ground that we have covered a lot of today already, what is the primary reason for the college’s inability to break even?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

I am struggling with the terminology. In what way is cutting staff a benefit?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

I am not criticising you for taking the actions that you have had to take. I appreciate that these were extraordinarily difficult financial circumstances, so please do not assume that any of my questions are in any way loaded. I am, however, trying to understand what drove the Auditor General to produce the report that he had to produce, given the wider financial circumstances that the college was in.

The last time that the college made a small surplus or broke even was in 2022. In order to make ends meet year on year—which is clearly where things have gone awry over the past few years—how many staff, whether academic, professional or at management level, have been cut from the college since 2022?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

In your professional view, is there any evidence that those boards will be able to repay the loans in future? I point to exhibit 6 in the report, which indicates an on-going remaining deficit for the next three financial years within each of those boards. There does not therefore seem to be any evidence that any of those boards will either break even or make a surplus, or have any ability to repay that money without finding it from further savings down the line.