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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 January 2026
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Displaying 1875 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

In your view, and without revisiting any of the ground that we have covered a lot of today already, what is the primary reason for the college’s inability to break even?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

I am struggling with the terminology. In what way is cutting staff a benefit?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

I am not criticising you for taking the actions that you have had to take. I appreciate that these were extraordinarily difficult financial circumstances, so please do not assume that any of my questions are in any way loaded. I am, however, trying to understand what drove the Auditor General to produce the report that he had to produce, given the wider financial circumstances that the college was in.

The last time that the college made a small surplus or broke even was in 2022. In order to make ends meet year on year—which is clearly where things have gone awry over the past few years—how many staff, whether academic, professional or at management level, have been cut from the college since 2022?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

In your professional view, is there any evidence that those boards will be able to repay the loans in future? I point to exhibit 6 in the report, which indicates an on-going remaining deficit for the next three financial years within each of those boards. There does not therefore seem to be any evidence that any of those boards will either break even or make a surplus, or have any ability to repay that money without finding it from further savings down the line.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

You have stated on the record in this committee and publicly elsewhere that you believe that there might be areas of healthcare provision that the NHS provides at the moment but which might not be offered in future. We can perhaps pick your brains on that some other day.

Going back to the finances, I was intrigued to see that you report nearly £700 million of savings in a single year across the NHS. That is a marked increase on previous years. Do we have any understanding of how boards have made those savings? Savings can sometimes be a dangerous word. What kind of things have been cut? We know that staff costs have gone up and that some salary settlement agreements have been reached, so there will have been no savings in that regard. Equally, we know that some waiting lists have come down, which will have required investment. Where are the savings being made? What do they look and feel like in the NHS on a daily basis?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

My colleague Mr Beattie will be asking about the new arrangements that are replacing brokerage, so I will just park that issue.

What I could not quite understand from your report is the variety of deficits that the boards are facing. I note that, in the last four financial years that your report covers, at the top of the list—the worst offender, if you like—seems to be NHS Ayrshire and Arran, an area that I have represented for nearly a decade now. I find it hard to understand why it has received £130 million of brokerage, while Fife has received only £44 million, or less than a third of that. Is that because there is a view that these boards are just struggling to make ends meet? Is it because of higher demand? Do they have a different demographic from other NHS boards? Are there other fundamental reasons relating to the way in which they are governed or operated?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Good morning to all our guests. I will start with some practical questions. When was the last time that UHI Perth either financially broke even or made a surplus?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland 2025: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Thank you. I might come back in later, convener.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

That is very helpful.

This is my final question, convener. What does the future of UHI Perth look like? Many colleges have been explicit with the Parliament, other stakeholders and the Government that they may hit a financial wall and cease to be going concerns in the future. That is not a situation that anybody in any of our local areas wants to see for our local colleges, and I am sure that the same is true in Perth.

Given what we have heard today about some of the issues that are outside your control, you surely must be left in quite a perilous financial position now. I am thinking of your relationship with UHI; the top-slicing model, which has been criticised by many board members over the years; the cap on your FE credits, the flat-cash settlement from Government; your indirect relationship with the Funding Council; and the fact that you have pretty much maximised cost savings to the bare bones. What does the future look like?

11:15  

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of UHI Perth”

Meeting date: 7 January 2026

Jamie Greene

Did it break even, or, if there was a surplus, what was it?