Chamber and committees

Just to put that in context, the justice budget is about £2.9 billion, and we are only now, at the end of the meeting, talking about supporting victims with a budget of £18 million. Therefore, you can see why, relatively speaking, to the outside world, it may seem that the focus is in the wrong place.

I am glad that you mentioned the victim surcharge fund, because your Government’s expectation was that it would generate £1 million a year—that was in your 2016 manifesto. We know that it has generated only £157,000. Why has there been such a shortfall, and what confidence can we have that, in future, it will generate meaningful amounts of money to support the victims of crime?

Yes, please.

I will start by asking you to clarify something that you said in your opening statement about the overall budget, because it puts the justice budget into context. I understand that the block grant for 2022-23 will rise from £36.7 billion to £40.6 billion—a £3.9 billion uplift—which is derived from £3.4 billion in resource funding and £400 million in capital funding. That seems to contradict your opening statement. Could you clarify that?

Good morning, Lord Advocate, and thank you for attending the committee. I put on record our thanks to staff in the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, who have worked under tremendously difficult circumstances to keep our judicial system operating fairly and justly.

I want to drill down into some of the comments in your written submission. On your asks for the Government as we scrutinise the forthcoming budget, the third bullet point in the section on “Looking ahead” says:

“additional funding for court recovery must be sustained. It will take many years to remove the trial backlog”.

Can you give the committee an indication of the scale of the backlog, the potential time that it will take to clear it and, more important, the analysis that has been done by the COPFS on the cost of clearing the backlog? It is clear that it will require a year-on-year uplift in the budget. The uplift was 17 per cent last year. What percentage will you need this year to ensure that you are able to clear that backlog quickly, efficiently and fairly?

Thank you. I will forgive the lengthy answers, because the question was a high-level one.

You have touched on an important issue. We are talking about budget numbers and finance, but people lie behind them. You have made that point eloquently, and I know that the committee will discuss those areas in more detail. However, the numbers are important, too.

It sounds as though the backlog situation is extremely worrying, and it sounds a little as though you are facing a perfect storm. You had a rising number of cases before Covid—it is clear that the pandemic has added to those challenges—and rising levels of vacancies. People have struggled to recruit and fill posts, given the time lag that is required to take new entrants into the profession and train them to levels to manage very complex—and increasingly complex—cases.

I want to ask about that. Perhaps people and places are the biggest costs to you at the moment. Your vacancy rate is currently 12.8 per cent, and you have stated that that will be down to 0.2 per cent by March 2022. That is only five months away. How realistic is that? What will it take to get that 12.8 per cent down to practically nothing, which is what you are forecasting?

For the benefit of the record, I was not implying that the proposed changes were financially led—I was merely raising the question.

I am glad that you mentioned HMP Greenock, because it and Dumfries are probably the most criticised parts of the estate. HMIPS said that the establishment breaches the human rights guidelines on cell size, is expensive to maintain and has limited surge capacity. Are you disappointed that the programme for government did not include any announcement of new capital budget for the replacement of HMP Greenock or Dumfries prison? What would your asks be of the Government on that front?

That is noted.

That would be very helpful.

The committee will present back to the Government the findings of our pre-budget scrutiny, so you have an opportunity to make an ask of the Government. If we know what we are asking for, that makes life easier. You are welcome to follow up on what you have said in writing.

An area of slight concern that jumps out at me is that, if you are making a large number of offers to junior solicitors or to people to join the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service, that might ring alarm bells in other parts of the legal sector. What are the average salaries in the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service in comparison with, for example, the independent sector, which you worked in previously? There is a general feeling that the public sector and governmental bodies are recruiting proactively and aggressively from other sectors in which there are now shortages, and that those sectors are really struggling to stay afloat. It is great news that you are reducing your head count vacancy rate, but is that at the expense of other areas of the legal sector?

That is a problem, then, if it is not in the current five-year capital investment plan and it takes at least four years. Such projects tend to roll over, go over budget and take longer than people expect, for all the reasons that you have just mentioned. Realistically, we are talking about being a decade away from having new facilities in Greenock or Dumfries. That is surely why organisations such as the Howard League are so concerned, given that the prisons are not fit for purpose now.