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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 July 2025
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Displaying 1619 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Jamie Greene

I understand, but when you go in there—in your independent neutral role—to inspect the prisons, what do you see when you go into HMP Addiewell or HMP Kilmarnock compared with what you see in other prisons?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Jamie Greene

The cost will be in the tens of millions. I am sure that the committee will discuss that in more detail, and with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans.

My final point is about women in prisons. In the submission, you said:

“Women in particular are at the extreme end of the waiting times and if requiring high secure in-patient treatment are transferred to England”.

Is that a capacity problem in Scotland?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Does that mean that there are facilities in Scotland, but they are full, or that there are no facilities?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Jamie Greene

What are the consequences of sending people to England?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Why do you think the Government would want to take HMP Kilmarnock back in-house to SPS?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Jamie Greene

I am not, but I would love to know.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Jamie Greene

The problem is that much in the upgrades or improvements that those people are asking for costs money, and will require a capital budget that very few of them believe they will get. With all the good will in the world, an increase in the resource budget will keep people happy, but it will not necessarily be invested in the things that they need. That is the concern.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Jamie Greene

In what respect?

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Jamie Greene

I will briefly recap an issue. The letter almost implies that £15 million is the settled amount, but the figure is nowhere near that, and nor is £51 million necessarily the end of it. At the end of her letter, the Solicitor General stresses that “proceedings remain live”; there might be other discussions and the £51 million is certainly not a cap on the liability.

On the financial side of things, it was helpful that the Crown Office made it clear last week that the money was not coming from its budget at a time when such budgets are under such pressure or are facing cuts. However, the question remains as to where the money is coming from. It is all very well saying that the Scottish Government will underwrite it, but which bit—which directorate—will do the underwriting? Does the Government take out insurance on such matters? At a time when ministers are keen to stress how difficult things are for it financially—which I totally understand—it is perfectly reasonable for us to ask where £50 million-plus of public taxpayer money will come from to subsidise the payment to the claimants.

Aside from the money—which is an important issue; it is actually a hell of a lot of money—there are other questions that lie alongside all this and which we have never really got to the bottom of. Why were the decisions taken in the first place? Why has no one ever been held to account? Russell Findlay mentioned that, too. A huge amount of taxpayer money has been spent, but, to my knowledge, no one has lost their job or properly apologised. A number of individuals have, rightly or wrongly, become overnight lottery winners as a result.

The Government must accept that, to restore trust in the Crown Office and its independent decision-making process, even with regard to historical decisions, some form of inquiry that is as independent as it can be must be held at some point. Whether that should happen in this parliamentary session or the next, I do not know, but I do not think that that faith can be restored until those questions are answered.

Criminal Justice Committee

Correspondence

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Jamie Greene

I thank the working group for its work on a difficult and sensitive issue, not least for members who represent communities in the west of Scotland.

It is unclear from the letter what will happen next around some of the proposals. I have concerns about the suggestion that decisions will be taken at microlocal level. I also have concerns about whether local authorities will have new or specific powers in relation to marches and processions, and about what the consequences of that might be. We could have quite disparate outcomes, with certain types of marches allowed in one part of the country but not in another, for example. That would leave matters open to the vagaries of how different councils operate, depending on whether, for example, they are more member led or official led. We also need to bear in mind that councils come in different shapes, sizes and political colours.

I would like to get a bit more information, as it is a little unclear from the cabinet secretary’s comments whether he supports the proposal to give more powers to local authorities. He only says:

“I am keen to explore what, if anything, is possible and desirable”

in relation to the working group’s conclusion on that.

The cabinet secretary uses the phrase

“improvements could be best handled by local partners”,

but the letter does not state who those local partners would be and what statutory roles they would play in making decisions.

Some people are disappointed that we will not have a Northern Ireland-style parades commission. I understand that the number of parades that take place is much lower in Scotland than it is in Ireland, but the consequences are often not dissimilar.

I ask that we are kept up to date on the issue. I would find it really helpful to get from the cabinet secretary any information on the Government’s direction of travel.