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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 November 2025
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Displaying 1262 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 12 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I understand. For the avoidance of doubt, I presume that the measures that you have outlined are available to all colleges, not just the four that you are working closely with.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

David Belsey, what is your view? Is that work being done?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

Earlier, we brought up the Withers report. James Withers referred to colleges as

“a burning platform in relation to finance and sustainability”

and said that he feared that there might be

“a ... chaotic reorganisation ... based on the law of natural selection”.—[Official Report, Education, Children and Young People Committee, 15 November 2023; c 49.]

David Belsey, do you recognise that risk? If so, what can be done to manage it and is the Government taking that action?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

Mark MacPherson, given what you have just heard and what you know about the sector, is there a risk of chaotic reorganisation? If so, what is being done to mitigate it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

On that point, the helpful submission that Mary Senior sent in states that the Scottish Government

“provides over £1billion ... to higher education annually”,

but

“a decade ago they were citing”

exactly

“the same ... figure”.

In your submission, you also suggest that the policy of free tuition

“needs to be properly funded”.

The committee is looking at the budget process. Are you able to guide us on what “properly funded” looks like, in terms of an indicative sum?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I understand.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

Good morning. Mark MacPherson, you have just heard David Belsey talking about sustainability. The Audit Scotland 2023 briefing paper on Scotland’s colleges said that the Scottish Government and the SFC urgently need to help colleges to “become sustainable now”. The following month, the Auditor General said:

“The viability of the college sector is challenged”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 26 October 2023; c 4.]

and that a clear plan was needed.

We are now nine months on from that. Has Audit Scotland’s assessment of the situation changed? Is there any evidence of a plan from the Scottish Government or the SFC that will make colleges viable?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I will reflect on that further, because I want to be clear. I appreciate what you said, and I will not press you for a figure. However, if the figure was £1 billion a decade ago, as per your submission, it might meaningfully be adjusted for inflation, at the very least, which might help the committee to arrive at an indicative figure from the Government.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I find that a very interesting point, which you have made several times.

You say that there is a consistent disparity between public funding and income. For completeness, when you talk about that being consistent, do you mean over a number of years?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Liam Kerr

I will ask a brief question on that exact point. Perhaps Ellie Gomersall and Mary Senior may wish to answer. There was a cut of, let us say, 1,200 places, and I recall that the expectation at the time, around January, was that that would save about £5 million, but a £28.5 million shortfall for the sector was being projected. The suggestion at the time seemed to be that there could be further cuts to places coming down the track. Does either of you recognise that as a risk, and are you concerned about that?