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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 24 July 2025
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Displaying 1555 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

You are supposing that. You are not basing that on any facts or any evidence.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

I hear your point, but I come back to the point that I made to Liam Kerr. The amendment that you are proposing is far more radical, and there is no evidence of its benefits. We are saying that there should be a balance. We have come to a sensible balance with a jury of 15, so the jury size will not change, and I think that that is a safe road to go down. I think that common sense—let alone any evidence that there may or may not be—tells us that your supermajority idea would make convictions harder to get, so I cannot support your amendment 92.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

I am listening carefully to what you are saying, but my fear is that if we do not do this, nothing will happen. We all agree on the need for sexual crimes to be dealt with by specialists and recognise the horrific rise in the number of those crimes. Do you not think that it is a step in the right direction to recognise that and to say that we are going to do something about it? I hear what you are saying, but nothing will happen if we keep the situation as it is.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

There is no evidence for your position, either.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

I go back to an earlier intervention that my colleague Katy Clark made on Sharon Dowey, who talked about a lack of evidence. Would you not concede that your position on a supermajority would be a radical change without evidence? You are saying that we cannot make a change because we do not have evidence, but you are proposing a radical change with a supermajority.

You referred to the bill at stage 1 proposing a jury of 12. We now need to accept that we are talking about a jury of 15, with a majority of 10. Getting rid of the not proven verdict is universally popular. Given that, do you not agree that the Government is striking the right balance by keeping the jury size at 15 but requiring a majority of 10? I think that your solution presents a much greater risk of making it much harder to get convictions. It is far more radical than what has been suggested.

10:30  

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

I have already said, in my intervention on Liam Kerr, some of what I was going to say, but I have a question for Sharon Dowey. On amendment 92, you talked about how unsatisfactory the mock jury research was. Do you know how many people were involved in that? I know that it was quite extensive. I acknowledge what you said about it being a mock jury trial, but there was a lot of research and evidence.

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

Just for context, those trials involved 900 people and 64 juries. That is pretty extensive—

Meeting of the Parliament

Secure Accommodation Capacity

Meeting date: 26 March 2025

Rona Mackay

It is right that Scotland is committed to a rights-based approach to youth justice that is focused on prevention and early intervention. With that in mind, what is the Government doing to invest in preventative approaches and alternatives to remand?

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Grenfell Tower Inquiry: Phase 2 Report

Meeting date: 25 March 2025

Rona Mackay

The Scottish Government has taken a firm but fair approach to ensure that developers uphold their responsibilities in relation to cladding remediation. Will the minister outline how interventions such as the Scottish safer buildings accord and the upcoming responsible developers scheme ensure that developers are incentivised to work with, and not against, the Scottish Government in making our buildings safer?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Committee Effectiveness Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2025

Rona Mackay

I completely get your point about things needing to be new and significant, but does that mean that the news is now just getting distilled into pretty much a snapshot or a headline for social media? In days gone by, you might have seen something in committee and thought, “There’s something behind that,” and you would have done more of a feature or piece on it. Of course, when I say “you”, I do not mean you personally—the media do not do that sort of thing any more.